(urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
Antonin Scriabin
kierkegaurdian at gmail.com
Thu Feb 7 07:57:51 PST 2013
Ah, ok. The speech isn't true speech, just animal imitation, in a way.
Perhaps a highly evolved form of mimicry design to lure prey?
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:
> Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important
> difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the voice of
> the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological
> puppet---far from a full possession or animation.
>
>
> On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>
>> "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious selves---with
>> the act of drinking"
>>
>> The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the
>> inhumi would remain beasts as well. The alzabo and inhumi seem very
>> similar in this regard as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net<mailto:
>> dstockhoff at verizon.net**>> wrote:
>>
>> In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward "recurring
>> notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
>> identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
>> memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
>> action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast
>> even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed
>> idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>> selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
>> separate acts of the sacrament).
>>
>> With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth as
>> well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body
>> that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
>> Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.
>> This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost" story,
>> with all its implications.
>>
>>
>> On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>>
>> Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different topic:
>>
>> Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds from
>> your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank the
>> blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who
>> lived with the mind it took from yours."
>>
>> This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
>> encounters, that eats the family he stays with. The father, I
>> believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
>> alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
>> home. There are few shared dynamics in these scenes. For
>> example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
>> human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there
>> is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait via
>> Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another son
>> (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor of
>> the alzabo, addressing him) in the other. Thoughts?
>>
>> There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer of
>> "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
>> mechanics are pretty clear. Is there any meaningful
>> connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
>> flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series, one
>> that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
>> <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
>> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>**>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>> /<dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>>
>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>
>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>
>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>>
>> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net**>>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net
>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>>
>> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>
>>
>> Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>>
>>
>> You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>>
>> Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
>> Does this
>> suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone else?
>>
>> Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like" person you
>> mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why he's
>> stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other
>> words)
>>
>> No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous one of
>> which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go to
>> lie in
>> it" or something to that effect, but that would certainly
>> establish a very strange genetic relationship between
>> Typhon and
>> Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly
>> ascribe
>> only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
>> As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless cloak"
>> on the
>> high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo of
>> maimed
>> Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
>> receded, or
>> at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
>> Unless it is
>> just a Vanished Person ...
>>
>>
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