<div dir="ltr">Ah, ok. The speech isn't true speech, just animal imitation, in a way. Perhaps a highly evolved form of mimicry design to lure prey?<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM, David Stockhoff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the voice of the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological puppet---far from a full possession or animation.<div class="im">
<br>
<br>
On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im">
"in that they actually create themselves---their conscious selves---with the act of drinking"<br>
<br>
The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the inhumi would remain beasts as well. The alzabo and inhumi seem very similar in this regard as well.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></div><div><div class="h5">
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff <<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><u></u>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward "recurring<br>
notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:<br>
identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or<br>
memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of<br>
action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast<br>
even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed<br>
idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious<br>
selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being<br>
separate acts of the sacrament).<br>
<br>
With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth as<br>
well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body<br>
that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of<br>
Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.<br>
This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost" story,<br>
with all its implications.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:<br>
<br>
Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different topic:<br>
<br>
Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds from<br>
your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank the<br>
blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who<br>
lived with the mind it took from yours."<br>
<br>
This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian<br>
encounters, that eats the family he stays with. The father, I<br>
believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the<br>
alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their<br>
home. There are few shared dynamics in these scenes. For<br>
example, apart from the implication that the minds of the<br>
human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there<br>
is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait via<br>
Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another son<br>
(little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor of<br>
the alzabo, addressing him) in the other. Thoughts?<br>
<br>
There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer of<br>
"mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental<br>
mechanics are pretty clear. Is there any meaningful<br>
connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /<br>
flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series, one<br>
that Wolfe is particularly fond of?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini<br>
<<a href="mailto:marcaramini@yahoo.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marcaramini@yahoo.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@yahoo.com</a>><br></div></div>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:marcaramini@yahoo.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@yahoo.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:marcaramini@yahoo.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@yahoo.com</a>><u></u>>><div class="im">
<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF<br>
/<<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><u></u>><br>
<br></div>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><div class="im"><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><u></u>>>>/* wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><u></u>><br></div>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><div class="im"><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a><u></u>>>><br>
<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower<br>
To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br></div>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a><div><div class="h5"><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a>>>><br>
<br>
Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)<br>
<br>
Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?<br>
Does this<br>
suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone else?<br>
<br>
Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like" person you<br>
mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why he's<br>
stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other<br>
words)<br>
<br>
No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous one of<br>
which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go to<br>
lie in<br>
it" or something to that effect, but that would certainly<br>
establish a very strange genetic relationship between<br>
Typhon and<br>
Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly<br>
ascribe<br>
only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".<br>
As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless cloak"<br>
on the<br>
high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo of<br>
maimed<br>
Severian on his high island, now that the waters have<br>
receded, or<br>
at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.<br>
Unless it is<br>
just a Vanished Person ...<br>
<br>
<br>
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