(urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower

David Stockhoff dstockhoff at verizon.net
Thu Feb 7 07:54:45 PST 2013


Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important 
difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the voice 
of the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological 
puppet---far from a full possession or animation.

On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
> "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious 
> selves---with the act of drinking"
>
> The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the 
> inhumi would remain beasts as well.  The alzabo and inhumi seem very 
> similar in this regard as well.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff 
> <dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>> wrote:
>
>     In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward "recurring
>     notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
>     identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
>     memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
>     action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast
>     even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed
>     idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
>     selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
>     separate acts of the sacrament).
>
>     With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth as
>     well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body
>     that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
>     Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.
>     This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost" story,
>     with all its implications.
>
>
>     On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>
>         Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different topic:
>
>         Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds from
>         your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank the
>         blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who
>         lived with the mind it took from yours."
>
>         This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
>         encounters, that eats the family he stays with.  The father, I
>         believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
>         alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
>         home.  There are few shared dynamics in these scenes.  For
>         example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
>         human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there
>         is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait via
>         Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another son
>         (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor of
>         the alzabo, addressing him) in the other.  Thoughts?
>
>         There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer of
>         "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
>         mechanics are pretty clear.  Is there any meaningful
>         connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
>         flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series, one
>         that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>
>
>         On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
>         <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
>         <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>>>
>         wrote:
>
>
>
>             --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>         /<dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>
>             <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>>/* wrote:
>
>
>                 From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>                 <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
>         <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>>
>
>
>                 Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
>                 To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net
>         <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>                 <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
>         <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>
>
>                 Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>
>
>                 You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>
>                 Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
>         Does this
>                 suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone else?
>
>                 Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like" person you
>                 mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why he's
>                 stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other
>         words)
>
>             No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous one of
>             which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go to
>         lie in
>             it" or something to that effect, but that would certainly
>             establish a very strange genetic relationship between
>         Typhon and
>             Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly
>         ascribe
>             only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
>             As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless cloak"
>         on the
>             high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo of
>         maimed
>             Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
>         receded, or
>             at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
>          Unless it is
>             just a Vanished Person ...
>
>
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