(urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
David Stockhoff
dstockhoff at verizon.net
Thu Feb 7 07:54:45 PST 2013
Definitely. But the alzabo remains a beast, which is the important
difference, I think. The voice within it speaks, but it is not the voice
of the alzabo, which has no awareness. It's less than a biological
puppet---far from a full possession or animation.
On 2/7/2013 10:42 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
> "in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
> selves---with the act of drinking"
>
> The other thing is that Jahlee says without drinking the blood, the
> inhumi would remain beasts as well. The alzabo and inhumi seem very
> similar in this regard as well.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:36 AM, David Stockhoff
> <dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>> wrote:
>
> In the absence of any concrete answer, I'd lean toward "recurring
> notion." But it's one that's grounded in Wolfe's obsessions:
> identity, speech-as-identity, spirit/soul/thought (or
> memory-as-identity) vs matter/flesh/reality, and morality of
> action regardless of moral starting point. The alzabo is a beast
> even when it speaks, however, so the inhumi are a more developed
> idea, in that they actually create themselves---their conscious
> selves---with the act of drinking (drinking and eating being
> separate acts of the sacrament).
>
> With Jahlee, there may be a rough parallel to the virgin birth as
> well, if you take Krait (the mind of Krait, not the mutable body
> that holds Krait) as having been born of Jahlee's drinking of
> Sinew's blood rather than whatever conjugation created his body.
> This suggests the Trinity of course---the ultimate "ghost" story,
> with all its implications.
>
>
> On 2/6/2013 10:43 PM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:
>
> Another idea popped into my head, albeit on a different topic:
>
> Jahlee says, right before her death, "We take their minds from
> your blood. Their minds are yours. Here, long ago, I drank the
> blood of your small son. Krait was my son, the only one who
> lived with the mind it took from yours."
>
> This strikes me as very similar to the alzabo Severian
> encounters, that eats the family he stays with. The father, I
> believe, is eaten first, and his mind "bubbles up" in the
> alzabo and speaks to the family when it breaks into their
> home. There are few shared dynamics in these scenes. For
> example, apart from the implication that the minds of the
> human characters are contained in their blood / flesh, there
> is an eerie, "unnatural" connection between one son (Krait via
> Jahlee) and his father (Horn) in the one case, and another son
> (little Severian) and his father (surfaced in the demeanor of
> the alzabo, addressing him) in the other. Thoughts?
>
> There is also the eating of Thecla's flesh and the transfer of
> "mind" (powered by alzabo glands) ... the sacramental
> mechanics are pretty clear. Is there any meaningful
> connection between alzabo and inhumu, or is this "blood /
> flesh as mind" just a recurring notion in the two series, one
> that Wolfe is particularly fond of?
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Marc Aramini
> <marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>
> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/6/13, DAVID STOCKHOFF
> /<dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>
> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net
> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net
> <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>>>
>
>
> Subject: Re: (urth) Silk/Horn in the Matachin Tower
> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net
> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net
> <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>>
>
> Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 10:12 AM
>
>
> You're always a few steps ahead, Mark. :)
>
> Is there a consensus that it's Typhon's mausoleum?
> Does this
> suggest Severian "looks like" Typhon? Or someone else?
>
> Also, do you think the stiff-legged "bird-like" person you
> mentioned is actually tree-related, and that's why he's
> stiff-legged ? (not really birdlike at all, in other
> words)
>
> No consensus on the mausoleum and if it is the infamous one of
> which Severian claims, "I have seen my tomb and now go to
> lie in
> it" or something to that effect, but that would certainly
> establish a very strange genetic relationship between
> Typhon and
> Severian that I had previously only been able to firmly
> ascribe
> only to Silk, as Typhon's probable "heir".
> As far as the stiff-legged thing in the "colorless cloak"
> on the
> high ground on Green, I think that is probably an echo of
> maimed
> Severian on his high island, now that the waters have
> receded, or
> at least some eidolon of Sev, effectively immortal.
> Unless it is
> just a Vanished Person ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
> <mailto:urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>>
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net <mailto:urth at urth.net>
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net
More information about the Urth
mailing list