(urth) The Wizard

[Daniel Petersen]

In the Old Testament, God is a self-proclaimed angry God. A jealous God who
acknowledges the existence of real, rival gods. An unforgiving God who
viciouly
slaughters those who disobey him. A malicious God who repeatedly hardens
Pharaoh's
heart when the guy is trying to let the Hebrews go free; eventually
sentencing
thousands of innocent Egyptian children to death and drowning an entire army
because of the heart-hardening. This is a God of war, conquest and genocide.
Mate, I don't have time to go into it, but I can't imagine a more
jaundiced, blinkered, selective reading of the Old Testament and the
doctrine of God that emerges from it (if you've really read 'Genesis to
Malachi' at all).  I'm not at all trying to assault or insult you, Lee -
I'm just getting straight to the point.  Terms of 'mercy' and the like are
used to describe God hundreds of times in the OT and 'wrath' and so on are
still in the NT.  That's just for starters.  I really can't get into
demonstrating how utterly erroneous your theology is here.

But to me, the Outsider is too dark, too pagan, too directly involved in
human
affairs to be the Christian, NT God.

Again, what the heck are you talkin' about, my friend?  It is PRECISELY
God's involvement that marks him as gracious, compassionate, and salvific
in both Old and New Testaments (think Prophecy, Incarnation, Cross,
Resurrection).

I'm pretty DANG sure that's the God Wolfe believes in and evinces in his
works.  Let's argue about more pertitent things.
-DOJP
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> >Daniel Petersen: I completely do not follow your theology there, Lee.  The
> >Outsider is *totally* like the 'God of the Bible' (OT and NT)
>
> I think this may be the very crux of our disagreement, and perhaps applies
> to
> Dan'l and Jerry as well. I know it is canonical in modern
> Judeo-Christianity
> that the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same God. But
> there is
> a school of thought which holds that the God of the Old Testament (and
> Koran) is
> different than the God of the New Testament. I have no personal belief but
> my
> reading of the Bible (and what I know of the Koran) supports this view and,
> given his fascination with the reality of pagan/gnostic gods I suspect
> Gene Wolfe
> subscribes to this school of thought.
>
> In the Old Testament, God is a self-proclaimed angry God. A jealous God who
> acknowledges the existence of real, rival gods. An unforgiving God who
> viciouly
> slaughters those who disobey him. A malicious God who repeatedly hardens
> Pharaoh's
> heart when the guy is trying to let the Hebrews go free; eventually
> sentencing
> thousands of innocent Egyptian children to death and drowning an entire
> army
> because of the heart-hardening. This is a God of war, conquest and
> genocide.
>
> As I read it, there is a huge contrast between that God and the God of the
> New
> Testament who is, as described by the Christians here, good and loving.  A
> God
> of peace and forgiveness, if not exactly "nice". The OT God is right there
> in
> earthly mix, messing directly with human affairs, appearing in guises and
> sending
> food, water, plagues, death etc. as He sees fit. The NT God seems more
> distant and
> far above humanity and human emotions like anger and jealousy. No more
> floods,
> burning bushes, wars nor genocides are sanctioned by Him.
>
> The inconsistency is so profound I find it almost imperative to consider
> the NT God
> as either a different or a *transformed* God from the OT God. The OT God
> may have
> been a step up from other pagan gods but He was still pretty damn pagan,
> when
> compared to the NT God. Jealous of Baal, commanding sacrifices, etc. Still
> some
> Zeus-like trappings there (and the Jove-Jehovah name similarity is not
> coincidental)
>
> I'm hoping that clarifies my view a bit. In BotNS, the Increate does
> resemble the NT
> God. But to me, the Outsider is too dark, too pagan, too directly involved
> in human
> affairs to be the Christian, NT God. If the argument is that The Outsider
> is or is an
> analog to the OT God I am basically in agreement. Which brings up the
> interesting
> question: Did The Outsider (like the OT God) cause the Urth Flood? (or
> Floods, if you
> count Blue)
>
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