<div>In the Old Testament, God is a self-proclaimed angry God. A jealous God who<br>acknowledges the existence of real, rival gods. An unforgiving God who viciouly<br>slaughters those who disobey him. A malicious God who repeatedly hardens Pharaoh's<br>
heart when the guy is trying to let the Hebrews go free; eventually sentencing<br>thousands of innocent Egyptian children to death and drowning an entire army<br>because of the heart-hardening. This is a God of war, conquest and genocide.<br>
</div>
<div>Mate, I don't have time to go into it, but I can't imagine a more jaundiced, blinkered, selective reading of the Old Testament and the doctrine of God that emerges from it (if you've really read 'Genesis to Malachi' at all). I'm not at all trying to assault or insult you, Lee - I'm just getting straight to the point. Terms of 'mercy' and the like are used to describe God hundreds of times in the OT and 'wrath' and so on are still in the NT. That's just for starters. I really can't get into demonstrating how utterly erroneous your theology is here.</div>
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<div>But to me, the Outsider is too dark, too pagan, too directly involved in human<br>affairs to be the Christian, NT God.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Again, what the heck are you talkin' about, my friend? It is PRECISELY God's involvement that marks him as gracious, compassionate, and salvific in both Old and New Testaments (think Prophecy, Incarnation, Cross, Resurrection).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm pretty DANG sure that's the God Wolfe believes in and evinces in his works. Let's argue about more pertitent things.<br></div>
<div>-DOJP<br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Lee Berman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:severiansola@hotmail.com">severiansola@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><br><br>>Daniel Petersen: I completely do not follow your theology there, Lee. The<br>>Outsider is *totally* like the 'God of the Bible' (OT and NT)<br>
<br>I think this may be the very crux of our disagreement, and perhaps applies to<br>Dan'l and Jerry as well. I know it is canonical in modern Judeo-Christianity<br>that the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslims is the same God. But there is<br>
a school of thought which holds that the God of the Old Testament (and Koran) is<br>different than the God of the New Testament. I have no personal belief but my<br>reading of the Bible (and what I know of the Koran) supports this view and,<br>
given his fascination with the reality of pagan/gnostic gods I suspect Gene Wolfe<br>subscribes to this school of thought.<br><br>In the Old Testament, God is a self-proclaimed angry God. A jealous God who<br>acknowledges the existence of real, rival gods. An unforgiving God who viciouly<br>
slaughters those who disobey him. A malicious God who repeatedly hardens Pharaoh's<br>heart when the guy is trying to let the Hebrews go free; eventually sentencing<br>thousands of innocent Egyptian children to death and drowning an entire army<br>
because of the heart-hardening. This is a God of war, conquest and genocide.<br><br>As I read it, there is a huge contrast between that God and the God of the New<br>Testament who is, as described by the Christians here, good and loving. A God<br>
of peace and forgiveness, if not exactly "nice". The OT God is right there in<br>earthly mix, messing directly with human affairs, appearing in guises and sending<br>food, water, plagues, death etc. as He sees fit. The NT God seems more distant and<br>
far above humanity and human emotions like anger and jealousy. No more floods,<br>burning bushes, wars nor genocides are sanctioned by Him.<br><br>The inconsistency is so profound I find it almost imperative to consider the NT God<br>
as either a different or a *transformed* God from the OT God. The OT God may have<br>been a step up from other pagan gods but He was still pretty damn pagan, when<br>compared to the NT God. Jealous of Baal, commanding sacrifices, etc. Still some<br>
Zeus-like trappings there (and the Jove-Jehovah name similarity is not coincidental)<br><br>I'm hoping that clarifies my view a bit. In BotNS, the Increate does resemble the NT<br>God. But to me, the Outsider is too dark, too pagan, too directly involved in human<br>
affairs to be the Christian, NT God. If the argument is that The Outsider is or is an<br>analog to the OT God I am basically in agreement. Which brings up the interesting<br>question: Did The Outsider (like the OT God) cause the Urth Flood? (or Floods, if you<br>
count Blue)<br>
<div class="HOEnZb">
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