(urth) Atonement Theology and the Conciliator

[Matthew Weber]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 4:47 PM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:

>
>
> Sorry, not the Saxon rite, but the Saxons' rite. I don't know what it was
> called.
>
>
>>
Depends on where the missionaries came from--but I would guess for the most
part they were from France, hence the Gallican Rite.



>
>>        Unquestionably churchmen of the time countenanced things that
>>        repulse us.  But I'm very wary of truth-testing religious
>>        propositions by measuring them against the political positions
>>        currently in fashion; if anything, it seems to me that it
>>        ought to go the other way around.  If there are timeless
>>        religious truths, then they should inform our political decisions.
>>
>>    As I stated, and as you know more than I do, Anselm's theology
>>    didn't last, at least officially. So it was truth-tested pretty
>>    quickly and found wanting. Our current "fashionable" positions
>>    don't really enter into it except as Wolfe might agree with them.
>>
>> On the contrary--Anselm's /Cur Deus Homo /is still a key work in the
>> development of Western soteriology, and it has never fallen out of favor.
>>  The Christus Victor theory has come back into style recently, but I wonder
>> how much of that is due to modern squeamishness about sacrifice.
>>
> It most certainly has not fallen out of favor, but some of his more extreme
> ideas have, as noted. I'm getting it straight from the Catholic
> Encyclopedia, which your people wrote, not mine! ;)
>
> What's the Victor theory?


The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christus_Victor) is a
good summary of it.


>
>
>>    And I am sure he would not approve of slaughtering Muslims for
>>    salvation, so....
>>
>>
>> No, most likely not, and neither do I.  On the other hand, remind me how
>> the Seljuk Turks came by their possession of the Holy Land...?
>>
> Was Wolfe also considering converting to Islam?
>
>
>
Not that I know of.  I was just being snarky about modern Western distaste
for the Crusades (which I don't think were any less legitimate than the
Muslim conquests which preceded them).

-- 
Matt +

The gods have their own rules.
    Ovid [Publius Ovidius Naso], (43 B.C. - A.D. c.18), Metamorphoses, IX,
500
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