(urth) (no subject)

[Matthew Weber]

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A bunch of good stuff with which I take mild exception only to this
> one paragraph.
>
> > Grace in the Christian sense doesn't seem to have existed before Christ's
> > passion and resurrection.  The Torah seems to embody an accountant's
> > approach to morality, with each transgression appearing in the debit
> column
> > and requiring the sacrifice of a corresponding asset.  In comparison, the
> > sacrifice of Christ is a general debt amnesty, a super-Jubilee if you
> will.
>
> 1) Grace existed before Christ's passion and resurrection, but it did
> so as a result of Christ's passion and resurrection. Grace always
> already can be extended to the "virtuous pagan" as well as people like
> Moses, Elijah, etc.
>
>
To be sure, they weren't punished, but they weren't redeemed either--at
least not until the Harrowing of Hell, no?


> 2) I'm of Jewish descent, and if I were a practicing Jew (rather than
> a rather poorly practicing Catholic) I would take strong offense at
> your characterization of the Torah. That is a Christian's view of the
> Torah, but not a Jew's.
>
>
Not since the end of the Second Temple, certainly.  Point taken.


> 3) Your soteriology is one common model but not the only one.
>
>
>
Sure--there are at least 3 other models that I can think of in the
Cappadocian Fathers, but PSA is the most commonly encountered one in the
West.  And since I was writing a short response rather than a book... :)


-- 
Matt +

Let each man pass his days in that wherein his skill is greatest.
    Sextus Propertius (54 B.C.-A.D. 2), Elegies, II, i, 46
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