(urth) Babbie

John Watkins john.watkins04 at gmail.com
Fri Mar 20 10:28:34 PDT 2009

On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:

> Thanks. It gets clearer for me with every iteration as well.
> You can also think of it as a language. Wolfe is so steeped in myth I bet
> it oozes out his ears. As in language, you have standard words and sentence
> structures but you re-order and recombine them to get new meaning. So stags
> and faerie circles may not go together in myth (it's usually a pool or glade
> the stag leads you to), but they can meet if you want them to.
> I don't know if a Neighbor "occupies" Horn, but it is clear that Horn dies.
> And there is a lot of psyche-sharing through blood in SS---it seems to be a
> motif, like eidolons in NS. It may well be that the Neighbor gave Horn life
> in the only way he knew how, by giving him Neighbor-life---but in Horn's
> memories in Horn's body, because memories are electrical/physical.
> Then the Neighbor went off to continue his own life in his own body, having
> merely imprinted Horn's body with not a copy of himself but with the most
> basic spark of consciousness. Just enough so Horn's body and brain could
> reboot (plus fix his neck!).

> This requires a life-psyche distinction, but not necessarily a soul-psyche
> distinction. We know a body can live while its brain is dead, and that a
> brain can "live" without thought. It makes sense that if the Neighbor
> revived Horn, Horn would only have Horn's memories. However, on some level
> we can't fathom, he may "feel" Neighborish---enough to put 2+2 and realize
> what happened and what he is. So he wouldn't know anything about any ruins,
> but might be drawn to them.

This makes the most sense to me of anything so far.  NeighborHorn is
NeighborHorn, not Neighbor/Horn--he doesn't have the Neighbor's
memories/personality/soul, but does have his life/essence/nature.  He has
Horn's memories/personality/ThomisticSoul, but not anything like Horn's
Platonic/eternal soul, if such things exist in Wolfe's world. He's Horn's
ghost in a Neighbor-enhanced version of Horn's body.

> Personally, I suspect that the "trees" somehow summon or project Neighbors,
> and if multiple trees (say, a circle of them) project one Neighbor, then it
> makes sense that it would be both multiple (many-legged) and composite. But
> that's just a hunch.
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 16:23:56 +0000
> From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
> Subject: Re: (urth) Babbie
> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Message-ID: <W657612303185601237566236 at webmail22>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> David,
> This is an excellent post. You've stated very succinctly his technique,
> which I had understood, but seeing it framed like that is a reminder that
> helps me see the forest amongst the trees.
> So, similar to Jordon's response, I'm with you on the faerie circle buck
> concept, and that it introduces Horn to their world and he is changed for
> it. I think no one could deny that this has happened in the mythic sense.
> As to the particular Horn version, I think he was just repaired. There's no
> mechanism for a body cloning by Neighbors who might somehow also be bucks.
> Repair just makes sense without adding any devices. The fact that the
> Neighbors, on Green, tell him they could repair him (but you would still be
> here) is enough proof for me that they can do this, and it's more proof than
> any Neighbors as Greenbucks (or trees)
> I was unaware of the faerie circle / buck symbol.
> ~witz
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