(urth) [EXTERNAL] Wolfe & Women

[Dan'l Danehy-Oakes]

Agreed!
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes

*Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!*
*--*Tȟašúŋke Witkó


On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 4:20 AM Norwood, Frederick Hudson <
NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu> wrote:

> I strongly urge all involved to drop this discussion, which I’m afraid I
> started, and return to the subject of Gene Wolfe.
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> *From:* Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] *On Behalf Of *Charles
> Gillingham
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2020 1:51 PM
> *To:* The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
> *Subject:* Re: (urth) [EXTERNAL] Wolfe & Women
>
>
>
> "Idiot" is an ableist slur...
>
>
>
> Some of the most vulgar societies were the most stable. Walking down any
> given street in Augustus' Rome would have disgusted us. The graffiti
> in Pompeii was worse than any I've seen growing up in the hood. Evolution
> isn't always a clean or polite process. The battle of ideas is just as
> dirty and violent as any other battle for survival.
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 10:32 AM Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> If you can't figure out a way to politely tell someone that they are an
> idiot who should go jump off a pier, your linguistic skills are sadly
> lacking. And that is no excuse for rudeness.
>
>
>
> Papa Heinlein, he say: when courtesy goes by the wayside, that
> civilization is in decline.
>
>
>
> Note also that "civil" and "civilization" are intimately related words.
>
>
>
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>
>
>
> *Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!*
>
> *--*Tȟašúŋke Witkó
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 9:11 AM Charles Gillingham <
> charlesgillingham at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Controlling speech is just one step away from controlling thought, which
> is controlling action. Freedom of speech isn't freedom to compliment or
> placate or agree with the majority (or belligerent minority, in this case).
> It's freedom to disagree with authority, to be rude and controversial. But
> sure if you want to be polite when someone tells you to come with them, go
> ahead be as nice as you want.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 8:08 AM Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rick, you got it in one.
>
>
>
> I'm someone who occasionally says some of those rude things. I'm old
> enough to remember when it was "normal". But I come down fully on the side
> of "political correctness", or, as it is properly know, *politeness*.
>
>
>
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>
>
>
> *Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!*
>
> *--*Tȟašúŋke Witkó
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:27 AM Norwood, Frederick Hudson <
> NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu> wrote:
>
> In my experience, people who complain about having to be “politically
> correct” are people who want to say rude things and are really complaining
> about not being allowed to be rude.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> *From:* Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net] *On Behalf Of *Gem
> Caccetta
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 2:15 PM
> *To:* urth at lists.urth.net
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] (urth) Wolfe & Women
>
>
>
> On Wed Jan 29 2020 Ab de Dos wrote:
>
> "I believe the politically correct accuse Wolfe likewise of being a
> christian misogynist…"
>
>
>
>
>
> I know Wolfe’s portrayal of women has been discussed many times on this
> list. I found this tidbit from my recent re-reading of Free Live Free
> interesting:
>
> Free says…”You like women, don’t you, Mr. Barnes?”
>
> “Like them?” Taken off guard Barnes considered for a moment. “Not really.
> I want them, and since I can’t have them, usually, I don’t like them. But I
> want them, I suppose you could say that. I admire Madame Serpentina.”
>
>
>
> I wouldn’t be surprised if this was Wolfe’s own attitude toward women
> speaking through Barnes. He could find things to admire in some women, but
> he didn’t really like them. Just my guess, for what it’s worth.
>
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