(urth) [EXTERNAL] Wolfe & Women

Ab de Vos foxyab at casema.nl
Thu Jan 30 13:49:09 PST 2020

Maybe politeness is a question of style and not necessarily correlated 
with an attitude of fundamental human respect. Often it is a way to make 
a distinction between the man of value and the worthless man. So it is 
not an ethical category but a strategic and rhetorical one. 18th century 
France comes to mind: very polite and very corrupt. Rudeness was always 
considered a property of the lower orders lacking the refinement of the 
higher ones. 19th century GB considered the proles genetically inferior 
like colored people and racism evolved with biological thinking - as a 
form of ideology not science - and imperialism. So politeness may be not 
only related to political civility but also to exclusion or worse.

Op 30-1-2020 om 18:10 schreef Charles Gillingham:
> Controlling speech is just one step away from controlling thought, 
> which is controlling action. Freedom of speech isn't freedom to 
> compliment or placate or agree with the majority (or belligerent 
> minority, in this case). It's freedom to disagree with authority, to 
> be rude and controversial. But sure if you want to be polite when 
> someone tells you to come with them, go ahead be as nice as you want.
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020, 8:08 AM Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com 
> <mailto:danldo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     Rick, you got it in one.
>     I'm someone who occasionally says some of those rude things. I'm
>     old enough to remember when it was "normal". But I come down fully
>     on the side of "political correctness", or, as it is properly
>     know, /politeness/.
>     Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>     /Maka ki ecela tehani yanke lo!/
>     /--/Tȟašúŋke Witkó
>     On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:27 AM Norwood, Frederick Hudson
>     <NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu <mailto:NORWOODR at mail.etsu.edu>> wrote:
>         In my experience, people who complain about having to be
>         “politically correct” are people who want to say rude things
>         and are really complaining about not being allowed to be rude.
>         Rick
>         *From:*Urth [mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net
>         <mailto:urth-bounces at lists.urth.net>] *On Behalf Of *Gem Caccetta
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2020 2:15 PM
>         *To:* urth at lists.urth.net <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>         *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] (urth) Wolfe & Women
>         On Wed Jan 29 2020 Ab de Dos wrote:
>         "I believe the politically correct accuse Wolfe likewise of
>         being a christian misogynist…"
>         I know Wolfe’s portrayal of women has been discussed many
>         times on this list. I found this tidbit from my recent
>         re-reading of Free Live Free interesting:
>         Free says…”You like women, don’t you, Mr. Barnes?”
>         “Like them?” Taken off guard Barnes considered for a moment.
>         “Not really. I want them, and since I can’t have them,
>         usually, I don’t like them. But I want them, I suppose you
>         could say that. I admire Madame Serpentina.”
>         I wouldn’t be surprised if this was Wolfe’s own attitude
>         toward women speaking through Barnes. He could find things to
>         admire in some women, but he didn’t really like them. Just my
>         guess, for what it’s worth.
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