(urth) George R. R. Martin on Gene Wolfe

aaron aaronsingleton at gmail.com
Tue Apr 28 11:35:08 PDT 2015


Wow. If she engaged you, would think you'd remember her name.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Fair enough, Marc, but ... I honestly think there *is* a problem with
> Wolfe's female characters. The only one I can think of who actively engaged
> me _as a person_ (rather than as a foil for the [male] protagonist) was ...
> and I'm going to blank on her name ... in _The Land Across_. You know, her.
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> One more thing I wanted to briefly reiterate, which I have said in part
>> in my videos, but I DO think some of the criticism aimed at Wolfe is
>> ideological in nature. When I think of an author objectifying women, I
>> think of Henry Miller calling all of them c#$ts and interested in them
>> purely for fleeting sexuality,of the same interest as a quarter on the
>> floor (slightly more interesting because he will pick up the quarter AFTER
>> he is done with the girl) ... but because of his bohemian, against "the
>> man", anti-restraint image, the discussion of his work rarely involves the
>> rampant denigration Wolfe's female characters get. For whatever reason, the
>> sophisticated readers who gravitate towards liberal arts programs tend to
>> be of a different political bent than someone who is more or less a
>> traditionalist, albeit an extremely eccentric genius of one.
>>
>> There is an ideological bias in terms of public reception, most certainly
>> - though as far as a Hugo goes, as you said, Wolfe's difficulty is reason
>> enough, I think.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Nick Lee <starwaterstrain at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://grrm.livejournal.com/424135.html
>>>
>>> Martin had a few kind words to say about Wolfe and the New Yorker piece.
>>> He also brought up the Hugos and the Puppies again. There's some irony in
>>> that, isn't there? The Puppies, both breeds, argue that conservative,
>>> religious authors don't have a chance with the Hugos because they've been
>>> "taken over" by a left-leaning, atheist conspiracy.
>>>
>>> They never bring up Wolfe, from what I've seen, and you would think he's
>>> the perfect example. He's obviously Catholic and conservative, to a degree.
>>> See arguments about this in the past of the List and recently on Reddit.
>>> He's never won a Hugo despite numerous other accolades. You would think
>>> he'd be their most damning evidence. So what gives?
>>>
>>> I could make a snide comment here about how the Puppies probably
>>> couldn't understand Wolfe anyway, but despite the snark I think there's
>>> some truth in the idea. A corollary to the Puppy argument is that more
>>> traditional SF, adventure stories essentially, are not winning awards
>>> anymore. On one hand, Wolfe does write stories with adventure: knights,
>>> wizards, secret agents, etc. He's also been writing for a long time. He
>>> doesn't write simple stories, though, and while he pays frequent homage to
>>> the classics of the genre does not write in their style.
>>>
>>> And what about those accolades? Wolfe has won numerous other awards;
>>> he's a Grand Master; other writers laud him frequently. In an interview
>>> from some time back, China Miéville noted Wolfe's talent while
>>> acknowledging a difference in political opinion.
>>>
>>> The reason Wolfe has never won a Hugo has nothing to do with his
>>> ideology and everything to do with the fact that he's a difficult writer.
>>> The fans vote for the Hugos, and they vote for what they're reading, most
>>> of which is more traditional and less literary than Wolfe's output.
>>>
>>> Wolfe is an embarrassing example for the Puppies because he doesn't fit
>>> into their narrative. I don't think he would play ball with them either
>>> because as Martin notes, he's "a class act."
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>
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-- 
Aaron Singleton
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