(urth) Tzadkiel's form

[Marc Aramini]

Another thing from Eschatology and Genesis that strikes the reader is that
the Autarch is confused with God by Meschia.  I think this is definitely
part of the confusion between Christ, the Conciliator, and Sev that we get
in New Sun (but not Urth) - bleeding from the forehead, water to wine,
resurrections, etc.  Even though the autarch is not played by Sev in that
scene and when the end comes Valeria is the ruler, I think the play
diffuses throughout New Sun in its implications.

Also, the last man's name of Ash (teutonic Ask) whose wife Embla had a name
which meant vine.  They were supposedly created from a dead tree and its
dead parasite by Odin and crew. Which leads me to believe that both futures
came true simultaneously, somehow. [the trees and lianas of Green]


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at gmail.com> wrote:

> Speaking of Hercules ....
>
> Romulus and Remus (Frog and Fish) are in one story fathered by Mars and in
> another by Heracles, by the way, which might tie in to Nessus - in every
> version a servant is tasked with killing them and places them in a basket
> to let them go downstream instead, though.  Mars' birth was to Juno alone -
> Flora attained a magic flower to impregnate her.  I can't believe there was
> argument on the list about Spring Wind being Mars, whose ceremonies are
> primarily in March.  Making it a red flower is Wolfe's innovation, I think,
> that links the story to fire (and perhaps the sun) in the tale of Frog and
> Fish.
>
> The problem is that there are two origin stories for the monster Typhon,
> too.  In one he is born of Mother Earth and Tartaros, in the other ... he
> springs from Hera (who is Juno) alone, without a father, just as Mars did
> from her.  Perhaps there is a conflation in the story between Mars and
> Typhon, which would be unfortunate.
>
> The fish association with the lake island people is very strong - they
> have the god Oannes and fish is continually mentioned as the motivation for
> the strife between the shore people and the floating island folk of Pia.
> When Severian is captured by the shore people, he cannonballs and into the
> water to activate the incendiary bullets on the boat and then swims upward
> like a frog (which is what Mowgli's name is supposed to mean). [Pia is his
> age, has dark hair and a slender waist, and in love is like a "sister" to
> Dorcas]
>
> The battle between Baldanders and the Severian is actually referred to in
> the embedded tales in at least three places as well as the dream in which
> the little stick figures are submerged after their weapons break.  In the
> Story of Frog and Fish, when Frog is challenged as a true man, the large
> Shere Khan smilodon character (the butcher?) starts to challenge the
> he-wolf who adopts Frog, and he is much bigger and stronger (he is burned
> by the fire Frog identifies as the Red Flower when he steals Frog from his
> real family)
>
> In Eschatology and Genesis when Nod engages the autarch, there are two
> demons present who indicate that the seed must be destroyed - and while
> Ossipago et al are three in number, one of them is different than the
> others - a robotic servant. Even the tale of the Student and His Son, with
> its naval battle, echoes the battle between Severian and Baldanders (though
> it is the least related, with the naviscaput matching the description of
> the thing coming down the river giving instructions at the end of Citadel
> of the Autarch.
>
> It is very very unfortunate that Typhon and Mars are possibly both born of
> Hera/Juno without a father, but then again ... Typhon does say "No, I was
> not born as I am, or born at all, as you meant it."
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Lee <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Given Hethor's mastery of mirrors and monsters, I don't find it a
>>
>> stretch that he is associated with the fallen angels/demons who reside on
>>
>> Urth. My guess is that, in parallel to the Biblical story, all of the
>> monsters fallen
>>
>> to Urth originated as mutineers from Tzadkiel's  Ship. By name alone,
>> this would
>>
>> include Typhon.
>>
>>
>> >Jeffrey Wilson: This would explain Typhon's rapid apprehension of the
>> time displaced
>> >Conciliator, but other Hellenic names do *not* relate to Ship-sailors,
>> >Nessus for one.
>>
>>
>> I find Wolfe's usage of the name "Nessus" to be multi-layered brilliance.
>> First it is a
>>
>> plausible derivation of the name "Buenos Aires", the geographical and
>> literary (Borges)
>>
>> model for the city of Nessus.
>>
>>
>> Next,  Buenos Aires mean "good air" or "fresh breezes" but "Nessus"
>> invokes the concept
>>
>> of poison. A not-so-subtle commentary on the effects of long history,
>> overpopulation and
>>
>> technology.
>>
>>
>> Finally, Nessus invokes the Greek story of Heracles, whom I find to be a
>> surprisingly apt
>>
>> model for Severian. Like Heracles, Severian is born of mysterious
>> ancestry who finds
>>
>> himself endowed with divine power but spends his life being pushed into
>> dangers and
>>
>> arduous tasks because of godly politics from above which manipulate him
>> without he
>>
>> being able to clearly understand why. And, of course, ultimately both
>> Heracles and
>>
>> Severian are elevated to godhood themselves. In a sense, Nessus can
>> represent the
>>
>> poisoned cloak that both Heracles and Severian had to shed before their
>> ultimate
>>
>> elevation.
>>
>>
>> (Chicago is a long-time, densely populated, multi-cultural city full of
>> all the positives and
>>
>> negatives that any large city provides. I often wonder how much living in
>> the proximity
>>
>> affected Wolfe and his writing)
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>
>
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