(urth) silk, the dancing toy, gods in the tunnels
David Stockhoff
dstockhoff at verizon.net
Tue Aug 27 14:52:40 PDT 2013
Severian, for example, is totally a clockwork figure---but not forever,
since he becomes a god. Silk too may be freer in Mainframe than in his body.
On 8/24/2013 1:12 PM, Daniel Otto Jack Petersen wrote:
> 'He realizes that he has very little freedom and it is all set up.
> However, Mamelta is swallowed by the giant fish, and I think this too
> is a symbol - that Kypris is subsumed by something far greater than
> herself, so that the englightenment, which Silk misinterprets at least
> once and possibly twice, serves the Outsider in the final analysis
> even if Pas and Kypris, the male and female voice, set it up as the
> spark that would start their little clockwork plan in motion, like the
> dancing toy controlled by Mother.'
>
> I think I agree with this. I don't think that Silk being shown in
> various ways to be a 'clockwork figure' is meant to convey that he
> definitely is and always will be. I think it indicates that *some*
> forces have that in mind for him as part of their master plan, but
> that the Outsider actually liberates Silk out of this simplistic
> pre-determinism into a responsive sort of agency as part of a 'greater
> plan' than the schemes of gods ontologically 'smaller' than the Outsider.
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Marc Aramini <marcaramini at yahoo.com
> <mailto:marcaramini at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> By now everyone know I actually think Wolfe creates symbols and
> "metaphors" that are actually extremely literal. Thus, Shadow
> Children riding Marshmen is the same as Shadow Children riding a
> man named Marsch (his name is misspelled in my copy as Marsh in
> the title "A Story by John V Marsh", which I feel might be
> intentional even if changed in later editions by copy editors).
> I've always felt that Silk felt particularly manipulated, and that
> this prompted his suicidal thoughts. Kypris is equated with
> mother, Hyacinth, and Mamelta in his dreams. I want to talk about
> the dancing toy that his mother makes move for him - I think this
> is a symbol of Silk, and that "mother" calls the shots. When he
> is enlightened, that female dove voice he hears has always
> resonated, in my mind, with Kypris, and when mamelta is awakened I
> have always posited that her claim, "We will be lovers" is not
> from Mucor (who was insistent that no sex with Silk would occur in
> their first meeting) but actually from somewhere else.
> It is Mother who makes the little toy dance, it is Kypris who
> calls Silk to join with her and Typhon in mainframe, it is Kypris
> in Hyacinth that compels Silk to love a prostitute at first, and I
> think it is Kypris' voice in the enlightenment (which can have a
> physical cause and still be serving the Outsider, just as the
> castle in the sky is a tent full of hot air in New Sun - it has a
> physical cause, even though Crane's explanation seems absurd,
> training us NOT to look for it).
> I think that the rather odd naming of the dogs in the tunnels as
> gods is indicative of exactly what it implies literally: the gods
> are in the tunnels - the sleepers behind the seals of Pas. Before
> his probably suicide attempt, Silk indicates that he is aware of
> his origins now and that he learned them in the time down below.
> While we can say this is just a statement about humanity and the
> whorl, I think it is personal - he realizes that the things which
> control him (Mother Kypris) are using him like that dancing toy,
> that his enlightenment might be spurious and predetermined in that
> gnostic universe (how quickly the chalk of Silk for Calde goes up
> after his enlightenment - I've always felt this overdetermined
> beginning is part of that "clock work figure" of Silk and the
> whorl. He realizes that he has very little freedom and it is all
> set up. However, Mamelta is swallowed by the giant fish, and I
> think this too is a symbol - that Kypris is subsumed by something
> far greater than herself, so that the englightenment, which Silk
> misinterprets at least once and possibly twice, serves the
> Outsider in the final analysis even if Pas and Kypris, the male
> and female voice, set it up as the spark that would start their
> little clockwork plan in motion, like the dancing toy controlled
> by Mother.
>
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> --
> Daniel Otto Jack Petersen
>
>
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