(urth) Lupiverse(es)

David Stockhoff dstockhoff at verizon.net
Fri Mar 16 21:08:53 PDT 2012


Just for the record, I can't find the "dull" MacDonald story I thought I 
was looking for, and I can only guess it's buried among the many ebook 
collections of his fiction on my old hard drive.

But /Lilith /certainly fits the bill, and /Phantastes /is not far 
behind. No worse than William Morris, though.

/Photgen and Nycteris /is one of my favorites, along with several others 
I can't locate at the moment.

On 3/16/2012 4:32 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:
> I plan to read it to my daughter when she's old enough---in a year or 
> two. That's why I collected all the MacDonald I have, though there was 
> a selfish motivation as well.
>
> I have to apologize for shocking everyone, however. It wasn't The 
> Golden Key I was thinking of at all. Had I read that as a child I 
> might recall it more clearly than I did in fact---probably as much as 
> Curdie---but I enjoyed it nevertheless.
>
> I am not sure which story it was that struck me as stilted and dull, 
> only that the protagonist was a girl. But I shouldn't venture to opine 
> until I get back home and find the physical books.
>
> Auden is amazing---no, not dull at all. But then he never wrote 
> stories for children, or did he?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Daniel Petersen <danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com>
> *To:* The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 3:30 PM
> *Subject:* Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)
>
> I really enjoy the edition where it's printed as its own small book, 
> with illustrations by Maurice Sendak and an afterword by W. H. Auden. 
>  (And I'll side with Auden over Stockhoff as to the story and its 
> author's worth - but maybe the Stock finds Auden dull as well?  [If so 
> only further proving my theory that he is inhuman.])
>
> You know, I actually first read that edition aloud to my daughter when 
> she was 5 or 6 and that was the go that really bowled me over.  David, 
> do you know of any bairns you can read it aloud to?
>
> (Does anyone have experiences reading Wolfe aloud?  I've never done 
> that, I don't think.  Lafferty gains whole new dimensions when you do 
> it with him - I wonder what it would be like with Wolfe.  I picture it 
> being more of a reading to fellow adults scenario, rather than to 
> children.)
>
> -DOJP
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Antonin Scriabin 
> <kierkegaurdian at gmail.com <mailto:kierkegaurdian at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     The Golden Key was a favorite of mine growing up.  I wish I could
>     find my copy!
>
>     On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Daniel Petersen
>     <danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com
>     <mailto:danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It's the BEST!
>          You have no soul!  You are not human, you are machine!
>
>         (To be honest, it was on a second read that it blew me away.)
>
>         -DOJP
>
>
>         On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 5:11 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF
>         <dstockhoff at verizon.net <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>> wrote:
>
>             Golden Key: THAT's the one. Dull, dull, dull, dull, dull.
>
>             ;)
>
>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>             *From:* James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com
>             <mailto:crushtv at gmail.com>>
>             *To:* The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net
>             <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>>
>             *Sent:* Friday, March 16, 2012 10:19 AM
>             *Subject:* Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)
>
>             Try some of his short stories and novellas:
>
>             Photogen and Nycteris (aka Day Boy & Night Girl, aka Son
>             of the Day, Daughter of Night)
>             Light Princess (aka Little Daylight)
>             Golden Key
>             Translations for Novalis
>
>             Lewis and MacDonald never met. But Lewis credited
>             MacDonald's fiction as an important element in his
>             conversion. He (and the reception of his children) were
>             important in the publication of Alice in Wonderland.
>             Although he was a pastor for a time, his sermons and
>             theology got him in trouble and he was eventually pushed out.
>
>             J.
>
>             On 3/16/2012 8:09 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:
>>             I'm not sure which of MacDonald's books I consider
>>             stilted and boring, although I encountered those as an
>>             adult. But I loved the Curdie books my mom read to me
>>             when I was four or five.
>>
>>             On 3/15/2012 10:51 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:
>>>             Phantastes was a beautiful book! Never besmirch the name
>>>             of MacDonald! heh heh...
>>>
>>>             As someone who was raised in a relatively a-religious
>>>             family, I usually just ignored the obviously religious
>>>             bits of Lewis/Tolkien/whoever else. But as I got older,
>>>             I found that the non-"preachy" manner of fictional
>>>             Christian works actually worked to explain why faith was
>>>             interesting and attractive. After all, here was some
>>>             fantasy that might be real on a certain level, or at
>>>             least a number of people thought so.
>>>
>>>             That's a perspective I've had trouble explaining to
>>>             friends who had that "betrayal" reaction to Narnia.
>>>
>>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>             *From:* David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>>>             <mailto:dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>>>             *To:* The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
>>>             <mailto:urth at lists.urth.net>
>>>             *Sent:* Thursday, March 15, 2012 9:42 PM
>>>             *Subject:* Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)
>>>
>>>             On 3/15/2012 10:32 PM, António Pedro Marques wrote:
>>>             > Wasn't MacDonald a good half century older? And he was
>>>             one of those mollified Presbyterians.
>>>             > But is it fair to criticise didacticism which didn't
>>>             pretend to be anything else? I mean, neither MacDonald
>>>             nor Lewis, that I know of, tried to present their books
>>>             as doctrinally free. At least MacDonald was overt as to
>>>             their didactic nature. It isn't Lewis's fault if the
>>>             Narnia books got popular that they were pushed
>>>             everywhere as mere children's books without a caveat
>>>             that they were had a religious undercurrent. Maybe the
>>>             real issue is that they are popular because that
>>>             undercurrent pleases people, just as Praise of Empire
>>>             pleased others, and those who take exception to that way
>>>             of writing resent the popularity.
>>>
>>>             Well, if it's boring, it's boring. And it depends on
>>>             what you mean by "didn't pretend"---as with Lewis, most
>>>             of his readers were children. If you have no idea what
>>>             you might be reading, you can't know whether it's
>>>             pretense or not.
>>>
>>>             Certainly Lewis wasn't responsible for whatever
>>>             marketing got his books in my local library and into my
>>>             hands. But I doubt they were and are popular because
>>>             they are religious: rather, they probably are popular
>>>             because they are accessible, imaginative (sometimes
>>>             magical, as you said), action-packed, well-written,
>>>             comforting (Aslan always appeared to set things right),
>>>             and morally nonthreatening. Girls read them as much as
>>>             boys did, and no parents objected to them.
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>>
>>
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