(urth) The Wizard

[António Pedro Marques]

Gerry Quinn wrote (09-03-2012 15:57):
> *From:* António Pedro Marques <mailto:entonio at gmail.com>
> Gerry Quinn wrote (08-03-2012 14:42):
>
>  > > The big problem I see with this interpretation is not the interpretation
>  > > itself but that Wolfe mentions Jesus and yet seems to give no indication
>  > > at all that this is the interpretation he is promoting. Suppose you were
>  > > writing an alternate history where Hitler became a monk and WWII never
>  > > occurred. Would you gratuitously insert a clear reference (and old piece
>  > > of newsreel, say) to Hitler orating at a Nuremberg Rally, while never
>  > > ever making any reference to Hitler taking vows? To me that seems
>  > > analogous to what you are proposing as a ‘secret history’ behind the
>  > > Solar Cycle.
>
>  > I don't know that I like to see *this particular* comparison between Jesus
>  > and Hüttler. For some reason I can't explain, I find that more offensive
>  > than, say, comparing religion to belief in the tooth fairy.
>
> I’m sorry you found it offensive. I wasn’t trying to make a comparison as
> such, just giving an example of how one would not write an alternate
> history. Hitler frequently features in alternate histories, and I selected
> him more or less at random.

I just didn't like to see Hüttler brought into the same room as Jesus. It's 
not the comparison, it's the nearbyness.

>  > But aside from that, I think Lee has a point. Taking 'our' Jesus for granted
>  > just because there seems to have been *a* Jesus on Urth is legitimate but
>  > not unquestionable. I find it unchristian to think the 'real' Church could
>  > have failed (but of course that's a catholic view). Rather, either the Jesus
>  > was the same but Humanity was fundamentally worse, or Humanity was more or
>  > less the same but the Jesus wasn't really Jesus.
> We don’t really know it has failed, though certainly it is a legitimate
> speculation. New Sun simply doesn’t deal much with religion. In a previous
> post I suggested that putting Christianity centre stage would be problematic
> because New Sun is based on an SF conceit that to some extent mirrors the
> Christian story, with a physical New Sun (technically, the old sun renewed I
> suppose) mirroring the Christian promise of Salvation.
>
>  > Think of it - if God has already come to this world and it still ended up
>  > the way Urth did, then what hope is there of it ever becoming right, Ushas
>  > or no Ushas?
> Would you have argued the same during the Roman persecutions? Christianity
> went through a bad time then and it might again. There are suggestions that
> Typhon may have done something similar.
> You might even argue that it would be *worse* if the Church were visibly
> presiding over Urth in Severian’s time!

The issue here is that from the catholic/orthodox point of view, the Church 
is a living entity married to Christ. Though it may have its defining 
traits, its ideology and whatnot, it is composed of people, just as you are 
composed of cells, and that's what gives it life and salvific powers, not 
the ideology. If you establish a replica of the Church with the exact same 
ideology and traits, it will be fake and its sacraments will be void. Maybe 
that's where Wolfe departs from orthodox thinking, seeing as much of his 
work has to do with identity and decoupling of mind and soul. But maybe not 
- if the soul of chems comes from some mysterious source, maybe a replica of 
the Church could be made true by an action of God.

The roman persecutions came at the onset of the christian era. The Church 
was in its infancy, it could hardly have done much to improve the World by then.