(urth) The Wizard

[Gerry Quinn]

From: Lee Berman 


> Gerry Quinn: 
> > Well, there are substantial and obvious allusions to Christian symbols and 
> > even references to Jesus Christ in Long Sun and Short Sun.   So I don’t see 
> > how you can argue that Christianity is not mentioned.

[I restored the first sentence above. Why did you snip it?]


> Because it isn't. Quasi-Christian symbols and concepts can be found from pre-Christ

> times on earth. Notably in the Egyptian and Roman cultures from which the Whorl society
> is most closely modelled upon.  
> 
> I don't think the presence of Christian-like symbols in ancient times means that means 
> Christianity existed before Jesus Christ. So I don't think similar symbols in the story 
> need indicate Christianity in the Sun Series.

Clear references to Jesus of Nazareth are not “quasi-Christian symbols and concepts”. And did those societies have the Sign of the Cross? Did they have rosary beads?
[I also do not find it convincing that the Whorl society is modelled on Egyptian and Roman cultures.  Among the Cargo alone there is a huge variety of culture, as we can see in the context of Trigivaunt, Gaon etc.]


> In a previous post I agreed with the possibility of the scenario Dan'l recently 

> posted: That Silk's vision of a Jesus-like guy was in fact Jesus Christ of earth
> and the Outsider draws the image from across universes to provide that vision. Like 
> Dan'l, I don't see much evidence of a Christ on Urth. Postulating a secret, hidden, 
> society of Christians somewhere on Urth and unmentioned by the author just isn't very 
> convincing.
I don’t postulate a secret society of Christians, though I think it’s perfectly plausible that there are Christians on Urth, or members of an evolved version of Christianity.  Quetzal is familiar with certain traditions that seem to come from a future version of Christianity or Islam (do you postulate a failed Prophet too?)  We hear from Marble, I think, that Chems used to worship the Outsider back in Typhon’s day.
Allah is referred to in the character name lists as “A forgotten god.  (Perhaps an alternative name for the Outsider.)”  How direct do you want Wolfe to be?  
> If you are unwilling to acknowlege that quasi-Christian symbolism existed before
> Christ on earth I could sorta see how the "sign of addition" might appear as proof 
> postive that Christ existed on Urth. Still I would think the presence of haruspicy
> (divination via animal entrails) and augury (divination via flight patterns of birds)
> by the priests of Viron would at least hint that this is a pre-Christian, pagan sort 
> of religion.
It may be pagan, but it is set in the future of a universe resembling our own.  Nor is it a matter of a few random symbols, but a lot of very specific ones.  And Jesus is very clearly referenced.  Allah is even mentioned by name, and Quetzal gives us a mutated version of Genesis.  
Ignoring all this stuff won’t make it go away.
 
- Gerry Quinn
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