(urth) The Wizard

Thu Mar 8 13:11:26 PST 2012

"But what's different at the end is that Able's blood is given voluntarily."

Interesting point.  I also seem to remember Baki being healed in *The Wizard
* (she had broken legs) was the result of drinking blood.

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com> wrote:

> But what's different at the end is that Able's blood is given voluntarily.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Antonin Scriabin <
> kierkegaurdian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "But some have pointed out that potentially eucharistic symbolism is
>> brought in right at the end"
>>
>> Is the portion you had in mind when Desiri drinks Able's blood until she
>> becomes "real"?  The drinking of blood for power / healing / transformation
>> showed up several times earlier, I remember.  When Able is wounded in *The
>> Knight* he drinks either Uri or Baki's (I don't remember which) blood to
>> become healed.  This sort of "blood sacrifice" that pops up a few times is
>> less a form of thanksgiving and more of a pagan transference of power;
>> blood as a source of rejuvenation is a particularly common theme in
>> pre-Columbian Mesoamerican cultures.  The fact that the blood of *several
>> * characters seems to have some type of inherent power (the Ael and
>> Able) strikes me as another parallel to Aztec religions (where both human
>> and divine blood has power when offered as a sacrifice).
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Daniel Petersen <
>> danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think maybe this is the classic interview where Wolfe talks directly
>>> about some of his Christian beliefs in relation to his fiction.  The
>>> interview's conveniently broken into links, one labelled 'religion'.
>>>
>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze2tmhh/gwjbj.html
>>>
>>> Or you can go straight to the religion bit here:
>>>
>>> http://mysite.verizon.net/~vze2tmhh/gwjbj1.html#relig
>>>
>>>  I would just point out that the Most High God seems quite absent from
>>> the lower worlds and that "he" struck me as a remarkably deist being,
>>> especially considering how active the "gods" of other realms interact with
>>> the worlds below them.  It seems that it is easy to go a world "up" or
>>> "down", but going farther than that is rarer (perhaps a "two-world jump" is
>>> even impossible), so perhaps the Most High God's influence is mainly in the
>>> world second from the top.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I noticed this too.  In that sense, this work seemed more nearly
>>> Gnostic than any other.  I wondered if he was being even more obliquely
>>> ironic and subversive than usual (a world without Christ keeps us distant
>>> from the Most High).  But some have pointed out that potentially
>>> eucharistic symbolism is brought in right at the end - so maybe Christian
>>> redemption is hinted at.
>>>
>>> -DOJP
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Antonin Scriabin <
>>> kierkegaurdian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Haha, a valiant attempt, Daniel. [?] Can anyone link to an interview(s)
>>>> in which Wolfe talks about his faith in relation to his writing?  I have
>>>> read a fair number of his interviews but they were mostly focused on his
>>>> philosophies of writing, etc.  Also, if I can bring it back to *The
>>>> Wizard* for a minute, I would just point out that the Most High God
>>>> seems quite absent from the lower worlds and that "he" struck me as a
>>>> remarkably deist being, especially considering how active the "gods" of
>>>> other realms interact with the worlds below them.  It seems that it is easy
>>>> to go a world "up" or "down", but going farther than that is rarer (perhaps
>>>> a "two-world jump" is even impossible), so perhaps the Most High God's
>>>> influence is mainly in the world second from the top.  Can anyone refresh
>>>> my memory of where Parka is from?  Was she an entity of Elysion, or Kleos?
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Petersen <
>>>> danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey, I thought you didn't want to discuss this! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> The *larger* summary of the doctrine of God from the entire OT could
>>>>> not possibly be accurately represented by a summary of the (alleged)
>>>>> doctrine of God one garners merely from the orders to exterminate the
>>>>> Canaanites.  Wolfe, in Long Sun for example, is surely drawing on a
>>>>> doctrine of a merciful, enlightening, liberating God culled partly from
>>>>> themes in Genesis and Exodus in terms of God's grace toward Abraham 'lost'
>>>>> in idolatry and then the Israelites in slavery.  Sure, Wolfe needs the NT
>>>>> development of the doctrine of God in addition - but humanly understandable
>>>>> divine revelation and the provision of a leader to lead an oppressed people
>>>>> out of idolatry and slavery are already powerfully embodied in the Torah.
>>>>>  Thus, the God in the fiction of Gene Wolfe echoes the God who is
>>>>> progressively revealed from Old into New Testaments (on the orthodox
>>>>> Christian understanding.)  That's my thesis.  Seeing the God of the OT
>>>>> merely as a genocidal tryant does violence to the theology found in Wolfe's
>>>>> fiction, I think.  Maybe Wolfe's wrong in his understanding.  I, at least,
>>>>> do not think he is.  (Trying to keep us *slightly* on topic here, heh.)
>>>>>
>>>>> -DOJP
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2012/3/8 António Pedro Marques <entonio at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel Petersen wrote (08-03-2012 16:30):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your summary of the OT God as genocidal and
>>>>>>> whatnot just is unsophisticated in its reading of the library of
>>>>>>> texts (...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The key word is *summary*. Otherwise there's just no way to go around
>>>>>> all the clear, insistent and absolute *orders* to fully exterminate the
>>>>>> Canaanites.
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>
>
> --
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>
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