(urth) Father Inire-Hethor

[David Stockhoff]

On 10/20/2011 4:58 PM, Lee Berman wrote:
>
>> David Stockhoff: What complicates it is that the entire
>> thing is ironically undermined by Wolfe, so it's hard to see. Sev
>> violates all these rules.
>
> Yes. It can be difficult to keep in mind (more difficult for some than others)
> to remember that there is no real Severian who is messing up the story and
> missing things and/or trying to hide things from us. If there were, he would
> do a much better job of it. Sadly, for Severian, he has an evil demiurge as
> a creator who toys with him and forces him to reveal embarassing things he
> doesn't want to reveal. And the demiurge does this simply for his own pleasure
> and to entertain his audience.

:)

>
>> We can argue, but Wolfe's overall purpose should be kept in
>> mind: if nobody gets the joke but a small minority, it's probable there
>> was no joke at all.
>
> Yes, I consider this to be the most potent and substantial objection to my
> Father Inire story. I take it seriously.
>
>> ---ID of his mother and sister is suggested, but Severa has so many
>> candidates with no clear mention of any twin. We know Sev slept with
>> Dorcas and others, but a twin sister should be easier to spot.
>
> If she were easier to spot, like Dorcas-as-Grandmother, she'd long ago
> have been spotted. Clute's insight of Catherine-as-mother took a long
> time for recognition. Perhaps other family members are even more cryptic
> to recognize. There is no clear mention of a twin, of course but thanks
> for reminding me that among the other evidence for Jolenta-as-Severa there
> is Severian's remark that the waitress seems to be his same age.

True. I think Severa would necessarily be a twin; she need not look 
exactly like him. Others would have noticed if Jolenta resembled him at 
all, however (hmm).

>> The slight clues to Inire as boatman are contradicted severely by the death of the
>> boatman. If Inire is a time traveler who died before he worked for the Autarch
>> Severian, that could work.
>
> Urg. Nah, none of that stuff ;-). As my recent post suggests, the best explanation
> for the dead Dorcas' husband is that he is merely one iteration of a being who can
> make copies of himself (perhaps an iteration who lost immortality by falling in love)

Then of what race is Inire? At any rate, do you see the boatman as 
deliberately guiding or helping Severian? He does after all not hide 
Inire completely, merely failing to connect the dots; the dots are 
there. The boatman seems to be there to explain a few things (Inire 
planted the averns) and give Dorcas a name and identity. These do not 
help Severian, but us. If anyone brings up Dorcas, it's Severian, and 
Dorcas does nothing to help Sev on his way to the throne.

>   Andrew Mason: but is fairly clear by the end. Inire is tracking and guiding Severian
>
> Yes. But for me that observation becomes more potent if it is recognized that Hethor,
> the old sailor (boatman), mirror master, is a version of Inire.
>
>> I do feel that, if Inire appears in three volumes, it would be good if
>> he were in the fourth as well, so I have tried to find him in SOTL.
>
> Consider the flowery, grandiose language used by Inire in the letter Rudesind brings
> to Severian. Does it remind you of another character's writing and speech? Hint:
> someone who seems to know a great deal about the past and future history of Urth and
> has rather miraculous powers of persuasion and anatomical transformation. A character
> who does not possess a saint name but, like Inire, one from Greco-Roman mythology.
>
> What about the fifth book? Given his 1000 year life span and cosmic origin, shouldn't
> he appear in that story? I think he does as the mutinous sailor who resembles Hethor.
> And also as Ceryx, who is cowled, who seems to be tracking Severian and who seems to
> have some superhuman power. 	

Pardon me for continuing to inflict my arguments on you---or rather my 
restrictions---but do you see these identifications as something Sev 
would want to hide? (Let alone whether they are "revealed.") Do these 
characters help Severian?