(urth) [BGSpam]Re: Typhon's nature

[Gerry Quinn]

From: David Stockhoff 
> On 10/14/2011 12:49 PM, Gerry Quinn wrote:

> > > If I ruled worlds with all those tools you list, and then you found out
> > > I was psionic (without using a psionic helmet), would that not strike
> > > you as significant?
> 
> > Not really, if psychic powers are reasonably common.
> 
> So, emphatically yes (because they are not).
>
Aren’t they?  Decuman seems to have them.  So does Mucor.  The Cumaean has.  In Typhon’s time, there was a telepathic internet.

> > > What if I boasted of these powers?
> > > What if I claimed (or hinted at) them but had none?
> > I don’t see evidence that Typhon did either of those things.
> "I sent my thought to far places." Jeff says this may be bombast. 
> However, in the light of what has been mentioned about Urth society 
> before the Whorl, Typhon may have been speaking as he would if his 
> society still existed, which would put a different spin on it. We might 
> say, "I googled it and found 7637542 hits."

It’s not bombast: what Typhon says is true, there are powers in the sea who would rule.  Whatever he did to find out, he did something and it worked.  “I sent my thoughts into far places” is how he explains it to Severian.  Probably he used some sort of telepresence system to access the databases, military systems or whatever.

> > He does have strong arms and hands, strong enough to dangle Severian 
> > over a cliff. But then again, he took those from Piaton.
> 
> Which means he does not have them at all.

Sure he has them!

> > > All these hypotheticals are situations in which the "significance" of
> > > psionic powers TO THE STORY is quite high. Wolfe has made choices---the
> > > choices are significant.
> > I don’t see it. When did he claim to have psychic powers?
> I thought you said there was no difference! But again: "I sent my 
> thought to far places." Why, do you think, he said that? Why did Wolfe 
> have him say that?

He’s talking about telepresence, virtualities?  Or maybe just alluding to looking at satellite images etc.

> So, then: how can the internet device be "significant to our 
> interpretation of the story."? It presents no challenges, is completely 
> boring, and is never mentioned.

When did I say it was significant?  It adds colour to our understanding of life in Typhon’s empire, just as elsewhere we learn a little about life in Ascia.

> I propose that the food Typhon feeds Severian is a ham sandwich. Do you 
> concur?

A kolpochoerus sandwich is another example of something that is perfectly plausible,,. but for wich we have no evidence one way or the other.  All we know is he gave Severian food of some sort.  (If I had to guess, I’d say something like the ready meals eaten by Silk and Mamelta on the lander.)


> > I don’t think the people in Typhon’s society are tools any more than 
> > people in any tightly controlled society are tools.
> 
> Not a part of my argument. However, that raises a point: which came 
> first? Were people forced to have implants, or did they have them 
> already and Typhon took advantage? 

Who knows?  It would have been convenient for Typhon if they systems were already in use, of course.


> > Typhon *was* powerful and unique, but it was not any psychic powers he 
> > had that made him so. Or so I think. Once he ruled Urth, he imposed 
> > his will by a variety of means, but I doubt whether innate mind 
> > control abilities were part of it.
> 
> But you have no particular reason to say this, except that you dismiss 
> it, and therefore you doubt it, and therefore you dismiss it.

Direct person to person mind control is a lousy way to rule an empire containing billions of subjects.  We hear lots about the methods actually used by Typhon, and they are military, technological, and personality based.

> > [I am reminded of the psychic vampires in Dan Simmons’ _Carrion 
> > Comfort_, the most powerful of whom rarely used his mind control 
> > powers except for amusement, surrounded as he was by minions eager to 
> > do his bidding.]
> Sounds painfully pointless. 

There was a point to it, and it’s similar to the point about Typhon.

- Gerry Quinn
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