(urth) Faterh Inire

[David Stockhoff]

For one thing, it has been noted that the Moffats lived before air 
travel, yet there is a plane. This and other twists (more than I can now 
recall) make the scene more and less than it appears. Is the scene from 
Urth's past? Our "present"? Or another "iteration" of Earth/Urth?

Or is it a scene of spirits called up by Inire, who built the Gardens 
and therefore has at least some control over time?

On 10/13/2011 8:21 PM, larry miller wrote:
> Dont worry about sounding argumentative, this is a discussion group
> after all.  Robert and Marie are most likely the real missionaries
> Robert and Marie Moffat who went to Africa.  As you noted Isangoma is
> an african name (zulu for sorcerer), therefore Isangoma is probably
> one of thier students.  These people existed during our time so how
> could this be Inire? And if it is him what would he be doing in Africa
> learning the bible?  Again if you or anyone else can answer these
> questions or have any evidence to back up your theories post them.  I
> am very interested in anyones take on the book and would love nothing
> more than to examine and pursue other lines of thinking.
>
> On 10/13/11, Lee Berman<severiansola at hotmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> larry miller: The jungle guide is definetly Inire.  Dorcas husband
>>> and Isangoma on the other hand Id have to disagree with you.  Isangoma
>>> along with Robert and Marie are just people from our time being observed
>>> by Severian and Agia.  Inire being Dorcas husband makes no sense to me
>>> but Id love to hear any thoughts you have on why you think so.
>>
>>
>> Well, I think I am willing to pursue Father Inire further than anyone else
>>
>> in the world (except, perhaps, Gene Wolfe and he ain't talkin').
>>
>>
>>
>> At the risk of sounding argumentative, which I don't want to be, I'm curious
>>
>> about your skepticism regarding Isangoma. Sure that trio is put there for
>>
>> to be observed by Severian (not Agia, I think she is a pawn with different
>>
>> purposes). But why? And what serves to link Urth and Earth if not Father
>> Inire?
>>
>> Plus we have a jungle shaman who is Inire and an "Isangoma", which means
>> shaman,
>>
>> in a Jungle Hut, both with dark, metallic skin. The connection is pretty
>> strong
>>
>> for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dorcas' husband being Father Inire is surely a difficult leap of faith few
>> are
>>
>> willing to make. I was willing because I was looking. None of the bits of
>>
>> evidence are compelling by themselves. It only makes sense, like a jigsaw
>> puzzle,
>>
>> if you identify each piece with other pieces around it.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, to start, when an small, old, bent man with a wry neck says Father Inire
>> is a
>>
>> small, old bent man with a wry neck I have to start wondering about his
>> identity.
>>
>> When Dorcas' husband says he was there when Father Inire planted the averns,
>>
>> perhaps he doesn't mean he was simply watching.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just before the Jungle Hut, Severian tells Agia a Father Inire story which
>> seems
>>
>> to suggest he has a somewhat creepy fascination with young girls (surely a
>> Lewis
>>
>> Carroll reference, especially when paired with mirrors). I think the
>> consensus for
>>
>> Dorcas'age when she first gave birth was about 15, so that might qualify
>> Dorcas'
>>
>> husband as being similar in that regard.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some other non-human literary characters who had a fascination with young
>> human
>>
>> women were the ancient Greek and Roman gods. They were always falling in
>> love or
>>
>> lust and changing their form so they could mate with some young ingenue. The
>>
>> offspring of such mixed-race matings were usually demi-gods or heroes. I
>> think
>>
>> this analogy helps us to understand why Severian is inexplicably special in
>> this
>>
>> story. Like a Greek hero he falls into fantastic adventure after adventure.
>> He
>>
>> doesn't always win but nothing seems to be able to kill him and he has
>> special
>>
>> powers which we eventually find out originate in him, not a blue jewel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, similar collections of evidence can be used to identify other
>> possible Inire
>>
>> iterations.  I mentioned Hethor in a recent post.  Fechin and Ceryx are two
>> other
>>
>> oft-discussed possibilities. 		 	   		
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