(urth) S&S vs. SF in BotNS

[Daniel Petersen]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> Daniel Petersen wrote:
> > Ok, Jerry, so I think you, like me, have 'magical' as a subset of
> 'supernatural' or 'paranormal'. But, if not in terms of spells, etc., then
> in what sense are these phenomena 'magical'? (I think I normally think
> there has to be some human agency in terms of cooperation with greater
> powers through arcane [and usually uncertain] rules or rituals. That's the
> kind of stuff I feel I don't see in BotNS. If the Thecla ritual eating is
> to be thought of this way, then, for once, I'd probably tend toward a more
> 'scientific' explanation as has been discussed.)
>
> To me, goety and theurgy are only one branch of magic.  Another is the
> kind that works by sympathy and contagion, such as sticking pins in dolls
> or keeping one's accidental cut from being infected by cleaning the knife
> that caused it.  Maybe in the same category is the kind that works by less
> obvious correspondences, such as Renaissance alchemy and astrology, or
> indigenous medicine that works by kinships among species that are based on
> stories.  Then there's knowing true names, as on Earthsea.  Another kind is
> magical devices, such as the One Ring.  And the kind that's just an
> inherent power, and is or isn't the same as psi.  I don't think I can
> classify all the kinds of magic, but "I know it when I see it" (and don't
> expect everyone to agree).
>

Ah, that's very helpful.  I really need to study what 'magic' might
encompass.  All these are plausible, but I would not normally have called
'inherent power' a magical quality.  That's why I don't think Gandalf is
magical in LotR - because he's a 'being with powers', not a 'worker' of
magic, someone who goes through certain motions (he may do that as well,
but it seems to me his 'race' have these sort of inherent powers you speak
of).  Gandalf is more like one of the X-Men to me (or even a 'god' or
'titan') than like a traditional warlock or something.  I would put both
the Neighbours and Inhumi in this category (perhaps *even if* they can also
be explained more 'scientifically').  All that is connected to the Claw in
BotNS is NOT magical to me:  rather, it is supernatural and miraculous
(perhaps prophetic, apocalyptic, and eschatological as well) - all rooted
in the person, mission, and character of the Conciliator.  Kind of the
opposite of most kinds of magic to me:  more missional than manipulative we
might say.

-DOJP
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20111221/cb3c524a/attachment-0004.htm>