(urth) Corundum of the Claw

[John Watkins]

I don't think he's the literal anti-christ either.  He's maybe a take
on what a heretical version of Christ would've been like in a
science-fiction world?

Of course, I think that the New Sun coming was ultimately a good
thing...I'm just not sure why.

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Jordon Flato <jordonflato at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I'm certainly not making the case that he is literally Jesus.  But he
> is far from the literal anti-christ.
>
> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Watkins <john.watkins04 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> That's is an awfully thin reed for "Severian is supposed to literally
>> be Jesus" rather than "Severian is supposed to parrallel Jesus in
>> important ways".  Perhaps the distinction is irrelevant for a
>> non-believer, but the author is not a non-believer.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Jordon Flato <jordonflato at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > And Wolfe is on record as saying that the only thing we're ever told
>> > that
>> > Jesus the Carpenter's son made was a Whip.
>> >
>> > Witz and I have always been in agreeance on this, and because of that,
>> > I'm
>> > more likely to find textual support for the idea than for the idea of
>> > him as
>> > some sort of anti-christ.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:20 AM, Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org
>> > <Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 24, 2010, at 5:05 AM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > There's a bit in John that says (I paraphrase): Jesus does not come
>> >> > to
>> >> > put the world on trial or to condemn it, but to rescue it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Severian comes to carry out a death sentence.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I definitely feel that "the Sev is not divine" arguments are fine and
>> >> appropriate, and I don't care to try to convince anyone, but I think
>> >> it's a
>> >> shame that people get hung up on this idea that Severian did a bad
>> >> thing,
>> >> that he "carried out a death sentance".
>> >> This view is not, er, holistic to the themes. The most boiled down
>> >> theme
>> >> in this book, holographically repeated, is Death and Resurrection. We
>> >> must
>> >> not forget that.
>> >>
>> >> Severian brought renewed life to the planet. the death of Urth was the
>> >> birth of Ushas, and the resurection of the dying planet.  To miss this
>> >> is to
>> >> fundamentally misunderstand the books, I think.  To view this as a
>> >> death
>> >> sentence, one is basically taking the short sighted selfish side that
>> >> Severian's foes had. They would deny the future for a few more years
>> >> for
>> >> themselves.
>> >> Fuck that.  This is a cycle that we see in nature. The forest has to
>> >> burn
>> >> for it's own good, periodically.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sorry, just about any reading goes, but to just see Severian's act
>> >> as
>> >> a just tradgedy seems to completely miss the point.
>> >>
>> >> It had to be a torturer to deliver the death stroke that brought new
>> >> life.
>> >> No one else would obey. Everyone else prefers to save themselves and
>> >> cling
>> >> to their attachments like children.  Severian did a difficult,
>> >> necessary,
>> >> and beautiful thing.
>> >>
>> >> ~witz
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