(urth) Babbie

Son of Witz sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org
Thu Mar 19 07:00:03 PDT 2009

On Mar 19, 2009, at 4:45 AM, James Wynn wrote:

>>>> Witz: You're NOT including Pas in your Trinity right? just Horn/  
>>>> Silk/Neighbor. Not Horn/Silk/Neighbor/Pas.
>>> Chis P: At least the way I read it, Pas did not have a soul as  
>>> such. He was  a... pattern, or a psyche (in the terminology I  
>>> remember us using in that particular conversation) at best.  
>>> Typhon's soul stayed with  Typhon. Even that psyche was not  
>>> exactly Typhon, because it had  either changed on its own or been  
>>> edited to fit its new role on the  ship (not to mention the things  
>>> that happened to it afterward).
>> I hear you.  But wouldn't that mean that Divine Silk was a pattern  
>> and not a soul or psyche?
>> I've understood that it was Divine Silk that got into Pig and thus  
>> Horn/Silk.
>> Unless of course, Divine Silk doesn't really factor in at all, and  
>> somehow Silk's soul got into Pig by some other means.
> The question of whether Wolfe views souls as physical/wave or  
> metaphysical entities is still an issue of debate. He treats them as  
> both. But think of Abel's discussion with Mani the cat about whether  
> he is a cat or an elemental spirit. Abel says he is neither. For as  
> long as they are together, he's a new entity made up of both.
> There are only three people in the Raja...and only three souls.   
> When the Raja takes on Silk's body and his mind, he takes on both  
> Silk and any daemon riding along when he died --which would not be  
> Silk or Pas but the Silk-Pas. This is further complicated by the  
> fact that Pas is no longer the original Pas either. They had to add  
> a little bit of Silk to complete him (so Pas has Silk's head now).  
> Consequently, Pas himself is also Silk-Pas, so what's the  
> difference? (And Typhon, when Sev met him --and apparently when he  
> was scanned-- also consisted of two souls, right? Hmmmm...The head  
> that was changed in Pas was the tyrant's, not Pieton's, right?. How  
> much of the old Urth's calde even exists in Pas anymore? )
> So, only three souls and only three Horns. But the three are not  
> necessarily the same three. If you are familiar with the way Wolfe  
> weaves mythology into his stories and characters, then you know he's  
> quite comfortable with this sort of double and triple -iteration.
> J
> _______________________________________________

hmmm.   Not trying to argue, but regarding "he takes on both Silk and  
any daemon riding along when he died --which would not be Silk or Pas  
but the Silk-Pas."
doesn't it contradict this statement "And Typhon, when Sev met him -- 
and apparently when he was scanned-- also consisted of two souls,  
is it one or two.  I'd say Silk-Pas or Pas-Silk is two souls.

I really think your theory is interesting, but I think it needs the  
justification for the Neighbor being a greenbuck.
and wow, I didn't know about that whorlmap site. I'll read up there.

On Mar 19, 2009, at 12:36 AM, Roy C. Lackey wrote:
> Oh, there were. But I'm not going to get into it again, either. Just  
> don't
> take everything thrown out here as accepted wisdom. Far, far from it.
> -Roy

nah. of course not. Not even yours, though I think you've got a pretty  
credible take from what I've read.

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