(urth) Quasi Christ?
Roy C. Lackey
rclackey at stic.net
Sun Feb 8 21:37:48 PST 2009
Son of Witz wrote:
>>Quasi-Christ works right?
can we agree on that?
you guys have convinced me that, ontologically speaking, Severian
but: "A god's supposed to pull on a man just like a tunic – that's
what they say."
so i'll settle for QuasiChrist.<<
In the case of Christ, mere possession and control (like the "gods" in LS)
of a man who is a person in his own right won't do. It is contrary to the
whole point of the Biblical tradition of Jesus suffering on a cross. It
mustn't be done on the sly and it can't be done vicariously. The suffering
of the god must be real and must be heralded, otherwise it is all for
I'm getting sucked in, and I know better. <g> Let me try a slightly
"The sky people-the Hierodules and Hierarchs-do not hate us. It is only that
they are remote from us, and they fear us because of things we did before,
long ago when our race was young. I have gone to them." I watched the
villagers' expressionless faces, wondering whether any of them would believe
me. "I have effected a conciliation-brought them nearer us and us nearer
them, I think. They've sent me back." (URTH, chap. XXIX, p.-204)
"Son of Witz" wrote:
> Roy, I wasn't trying to argue Severian as Christ again.
> you mention the nature of the Conciliator according to the text. here's
one you may have forgotten:
> from Chap XXI of Sword:
> ""Then his task was to forge a peace between humanity and the Increate,
and he was called the Conciliator. He left behind a famous relic, a gem
called the Claw.""
> That explanation comes long before any of the UotNS Hierogrammate
explanations, so it sort of sticks in my brain.<<
The two quotes yield different conclusions -- unless one accepts (as I have
argued before and don't want to repeat) that the Hierogrammates were acting
on express direction from the the Increate, not just guessing, and the
Increate is the same as the Christian God. In the earlier quote, Severian
could only repeat what he had been told by others of the lore accreted to
the person of the New Sun over the centuries. (Such as eventually killing
Abaia, for which there is no evidence.) In the later quote, he was speaking
*as* the Conciliator, fresh from Yesod and at or near the height of his
Perhaps, when pressured to write a fifth book and flesh-out his original
skeletal conception, Wolfe was forced to change his mind. I can only
Even while he was the Conciliator, he gave every appearance of near-total
ignorance of the Increate. (Yes, Jesus at Gethsemane wondered about that
"cup", but it ain't the same.) And after the arrival of the new sun that was
the New Sun, Severian went wandering in time, became a primitive solar
deity, and eventually ended up on the beach in Ushas as a petty god writing
his memoir, not back in Heaven where he never was or would be. But he *had*
been in Yesod, home of the Hierogrammates, which no one could mistake for
If Severian the Conciliator believed he, as Epitome of Urth, had effected a
conciliation, he ought to know with whom. An incarnation of Christ ought to
know and would know, else the sacrifice would be dramatically less
And, as I have said before, Severian didn't even make the sacrifice -- the
people of Urth did the suffering. In the Christian tradition Jesus, as part
of the Godhead, took the sins of humanity on his person and suffered for
them. Severian didn't.
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