(urth) Severian as reverse Christ (or something)
David Stockhoff
dstockhoff at verizon.net
Fri Nov 21 12:18:29 PST 2008
Just to stir the pot again---if Severian IS Apu Punchau, is there any
reason why he can't BE Christ? Do we not live in the same universe as
Severian? Therefore, wouldn't the Conciliator "echo" back to the
beginning of time and tickle Jesus with his noodly appendage?
I find it fitting that traditional Catholic myth (if I can say that)
actually places the Second Coming at the center of its cosmology, and
the First Coming is just a foreshadowing of the Second---though it does
not always seem that way. (Crudely put.) Therefore, it follows that what
is really important about the story in BotNS (the plot, I guess) is not
any Crucifixion, but the Future Return and Reconciliation (whatever
that's called; it's been years since grad school). So Severian's
"conversion" to the time-transcendent Conciliator (the godhead) should
in fact have ripple effects back to the beginning of this universe, and
there could be any number of Messiahs whose past existence is thus
rendered rather beside the point. And so it's irrelevant whether
Severian is Christ, just as it's meaningless to ask if Frodo is Christ
(he is, but is he a Christ for the Third Age of Middle-Earth or a Christ
for the 1940s of Earth?).
In a sense, this novel is extraordinarily arrogant for what it tries to
do. In others, of course, it is almost literally "religious."
I also want to comment in this context that if I were to argue that
Wolfe's approach is to subvert pagan beliefs with Christian ones, I
would begin with Latro. Wolfe is extremely well-read about the Greeks
and really seems to understand their thinking, which is almost alien to
us (they were unconcerned by torture, for example). And there may be no
richer vein for this kind of approach than the world that early
Christians found themselves in---one that was primarily Greek in
thought, but also superficially Roman and what used to be called
"oriental," (e.g., cults in which men unman themselves to reach the
godhead) and in which being Christian was not just a routine matter of
attending church and paying taxes.
From there I would move on to the well-trod ground of the Christian
propagandists in pagan/medieval Europe (Wizard Knight, Castleview), then
Christ on other planets, Christ in other universes, Christ in the far
future, etc.
David
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:10:48 +0000
> From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
> Subject: Re: (urth) Severian as reverse Christ (or something)
> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Message-ID: <W9404019816247571227294648 at webmail25>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> yup.
> it's all Jordon's fault.
> nice to see you poke your lurking head out.
> (tomorrow we'll have our Monomachy shirts)
> (anyone in SF, Saturday night, Hotel Utah, Orange Tulip Conspiracy is playing. Good instrumental band. they're selling tee shirts with my Monomachy illustrations. http://www.myspace.com/orangetulipconspiracy )
>
> I'm with you in that I don't find the manipulations and free will incompatible. It's an old dilemma, but it's clear to me that God puts things in our paths (or puts us on the path) and it's up to us to make our choices.
>
> I do have a hard time wrapping my head around some of the time loops.
> I suppose you're right about Severian being the Conciliator all the time, just as he is Apu Punchau. As I've mentioned, the mechanics aren't that important to me. what is important is that his life is a loop (which he outright says at one point of speculation). Which is why I'm CONVINCED that the Amphisbaena is one of the most central symbols in the work. Interesting that it's not simply an Uroboros eating it's tail, but a two headed serpent eating it's own head. This really speaks to the loopy nature of time within this cosmology better than a easy linear cycle of death and resurrection.
>
> speaking of strange loops, I'm so glad you recommended these books to me. I finished Urth and started Shadow again the same day. I'm back to the beginning of Urth again. Really some of the best fiction I've ever sunk my teeth into. Thanks again.
>
> ~SonOfWitz
>
>
>
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