(urth) Aside on Christ figures in TBotNS

[Jordon Flato]

Well, a big big difference here is that I don't see Tzadkiel asking for
worship, or denying the Increate, or putting himself in place of the
Increate.  He acknowledges his nullity in the face of the Increate, and also
never demands worship.  The Demiurge demands worship, and tries to set
himself up as God with a capital G.

On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 4:02 PM, David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>wrote:

>  Which is perfect, if you accept the parody theory. After all, the Demiurge is a parody of God.
>
> BTW, I meant "atrocious" in my quote below. I think this term can apply to actual atrocities as well as travesties of Christian form, and nothing is more banal than a sci-fi cliche or a mundane explanation of a miracle.
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> I think the Conciliator is exactly that: "a healing energy sent in from the true God into the realm of the Demiurge." Tzadkiel knows he is no Demiurge, but he is clearly the higher being in charge of our creation. To Urth, he is God in all the ways the Increate is not---the way the "hairy thunderer" Yahweh is everything the Christian God is not.
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:01:59 +0000
> From: "Son of Witz" <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org> <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
> Subject: Re: (urth) Aside on Christ figures in TBotNS
> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net> <urth at lists.urth.net>
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>
>  >I had forgotten that Tzadkiel's son fought and died in the judicial >combat that confirmed Severian's success as Epitome.>>If Tzadkiel is the Demiurge, and the Demiurge is God, then that makes >the son, well, his Son. Not sacrificed, but exposed to the risk of >death, because Tzadkiel thought it wrong to judge Urth without putting >something of his own on the block.>>Again, I am reminded of the theory that TBotNS presents parodies of the >true religion, and the phrase in Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius that Wolfe >has pointed at as an inspiration for TBotNS: "an atropious or banal >reality."
>
>
>  Yeah, but as I understand it, the Demiurge is NOT God. The Demiurge THINKS it's God. Half-Creator/ False-Creator.   I'm not clear on how Christ as son of Yahweh fits in, but I believe that he exists as part of the Godhead, not as actual spawn of Yahweh.  I don't know though.  Surely there are many opinions.  In a work like Valis or Divine Invasion, PKD shows a gnostic world where the Logos is a healing energy sent in from the true God into the realm of the Demiurge.  With that sort of view, Christ is still elevated far beyond the false creator.
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