(urth) The Katharine maid

[Roy C. Lackey]

Nathan Spears wrote:
>http://www.allwords.com/word-born.html

That on-line dictionary isn't worth the paper it's printed on. <g>

>>If the "borne by" means "to bear a burden" then the sentence seems clunky.
It takes a right turn and makes Catherine the focus rather than Severian.  I
think he's referring to Catherine as the mother.<<

I was hoping someone else would do this. Yes, he is referring to her as his
mother.  But, as I said, borne is the past participle of bear (to carry).
Born (no "e") is the past participle of bear (to give birth). Borne and born
are not interchangeable, which is why they have separate entries in my old
_Webster's_. You can simply substitute "carried" for "borne" in the disputed
quote without doing violence to the sentence, and the usage becomes clear. I
don't think that can be done with any one-word substitute referring to a
past incidence of giving birth to a child -- at least not without mangling
the English language.

>"Perhaps I was too distant from myself, from the Severian of bone and flesh
who was a burden to Catherine in a cell of the . . ."
>
>"Perhaps I was too distant from myself, from the Severian of bone and
>flesh who carried by Catherine in a cell of the . . ." makes even less
sense.<<

Just drop the "who" you added and it makes perfect sense. But cheer up; it
can still be argued whether or not Severian meant she carried him in her
womb or the brown basket previously noted. <g> See my "Baby Severian" post
of the 18th for the larger context and why I initially thought the URTH
quote contradicted the CLAW quote and proved my theory wrong.

>>Rex Lycanthrosaurus quoted:
>>>"Perhaps I was too distant from myself, from the Severian of bone and
>>>flesh borne by Catherine in a cell of the oubliette under the Matachin
>>>Tower."
>>>
>>>This also seems to contradict Roy Lackey's supposition that Severian was
>>>borne outside the Matachin.
>>
>>Ah, yes, so it does.
>
>Damn. I may have done Wolfe and myself an injustice by conceding too
>quickly. <g>
>
>Wasn't there a similar discussion not too long ago about "forebears" or
some
>such? "Borne" is the past participle of "bear" ("to carry; transport").
When
>followed by the word "by", it doesn't refer to having given birth.

-Roy