Fw: Re: (urth) Severian's skin color

[James Wynn]

Roy says:
>To assert that Tussah was a clone of Typhon is an unnecessary plot
>complication for which there is no textual support. It is enough that the
>old Calde was Silk's spiritual, adoptive father who designated his 'son' as
>the heir to his office.

"It is enough" is a key word here. I once had about 5 potential
explanations for Tussah's relationship with Silk. The one you give *could*
have been the explanation among others.

I settled on this "unnecessary plot complication" only after
Wolfe himself shut every other door. Wolfe was asked explicitly about Silk's
"ancestry" and he said Silk was "the son of the Calde and his mistress". 
Unless one argues that Silk is the natural biological son of Tussah and his
mistress (which is not explicitly denied in the text but is still untenable) then
we are left to consider who that Calde in Silk's ancestry is. 

>Let's see -- "Silk is a clone of the son of Typhon and Kypris' original".
>So, Typhon fathered a son on his mistress, and Silk is a clone of that son?
>Did Typhon father that child before or after he lost his body? Did the male
>half of the genetic material come from the original Typhon or from Piaton?

That's an interesting question. But as you know, Typhon was blonde like Silk.
Piaton dark-featured. But you make a significant point that Typhon has two
heads *and* two bodies. This is important in some of the themes Wolfe riffs
on. But not in this case.


>And who was that son? Why isn't he in the pantheon? Why isn't he in the
>books?

I direct you to the Book of the New Sun...the story of Spring Wind
(synonymous with "Typhon") and Bird of the Woods (the "People and
Places" section of "Exodus otLS" or "Calde otLS" mentions Chico, Mamelta's
pet parrot - this bird is not elsewhere mentioned in the whole saga
-  I take this an identity flag).

>And Kypris had the hots for a clone of her own son, and the clone
>reciprocated. Tisk, tisk.

(sigh) Kypris was not Silk's genetic mother. She was a algorithmic
simulation. I don't think even "Silver Silk" and Kypris could have
had sex so what is your point? I could spend reems detailing the
mythological types regarding mother and son that Wolfe is riffing off of,
but I'm sure you know them already.


>I'd like to see the textual basis for that claim [that Horn is a clone of Typhon]. 

It starts with the understanding that Tussah is a clone of Typhon. I
realize that that is hardly self-evident from the text. As I said. I settled
on it only after Wolfe shut every other door. But once you read it that
way, much more starts to make sense. Give it a shot. And once you
accept THAT, and once you accept that the story is littered with those
frozen embryos like the ones in the looted freezer Silk and Mamelta
found...then Horn's discussion about Pas at the beginning of "On Blue
Waters" and other places start fall in to place.

>You have, genetically
>speaking, Typhon = [bald] Tussah = balding Horn. And no one noticed.
>Not Quetzal, who knew the latter two. Not Hammerstone, who had seen both Typhon and Horn.
>Not Marble or Kypris, who had seen all three. And it seems to have escaped
>the notice of _everyone_ how much Horn looked like Chenille.

What makes you think Quetzal didn't notice? Horn was too young be of
use overturning the Ayuntamiento, and the Trivigaunte spies were doing
a lot of the work for him in putting Silk in that place. Quetzal knows a lot
he doesn't talk about...certainly not to Horn and Nettle who are the narrators.
Kypris? Same thing. What help could Horn provide for bringing back Pas?
The Plan of Pas had been totally screwed 30 years before. The powers on
the Whorl who wanted to see it happen had to work with what they had.

Pas was a god with two heads, both with hair. Tussah was a bald middle-aged
man. Horn was a teenager. Do you really think whatever simularities they
had in features were not ignorable? 

Wolfe could have had chosen to have someone note these things. He could
have explained a lot of things more clearly in this 7 volumn novel.

>Typhon was proud of his face. He had 'command presence'. Horn had trouble
>ruling his own family.

I'm glad you brought up this similarity between Typhon, Pas, and Horn.
Pas was master at keeping his family in line. He did a much worse job than
Horn. You really think Typhon was so different? We know for a fact at least
that his 12 year old daughter was conspiring against him with his enemies.

Also, Horn is the one person that the leaders of New Viron turn to when things
are clearly going south. He leads a war against the Inhumi on Green.
Thus his thoughts on the embryos that were given special genetic abilities in
"leadership" becomes significant.

~ Cursh