<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><span>And if she doesn't like pizza . . . Python fans know the rest.</span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Friday, October 17, 2014 12:09 PM, António Pedro Marques <entonio@gmail.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv6074490304"><div><div>I asked that because one has to know
what one is dealing with. I do not enjoy having my position be misunderstood. Math-oriented folks usually like to be rigorous in their exchanges. I said absolutely nothing about wanting or not wanting to be chained to logic; this discussion is not about personal wishes.</div><div><br clear="none">No dia 17/10/2014, às 15:38, "Norwood, Frederick Hudson" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu">NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu</a>> escreveu:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I did not mean to be calling you names. You said you did not want to be chained to logic; that sounds like post-modernism to me. I apologize if you think
of post-modernism differently.</span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Yes, I have formal training in mathematics.</span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Rick Norwood</span></div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Urth [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net">mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>António Pedro Marques<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 17, 2014 10:34 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> The Urth Mailing List<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: (urth) I, even I, would celebrate, in rhymes inept the great...</span></div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">I'm not anything of the sort. Just because the inadequacies of tools you thought all powerful are pointed out to you, it doesn't follow that you can go around calling others names.</div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">Do you have formal higher training in Math?</div>
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No dia 17/10/2014, às 15:03, "Norwood, Frederick Hudson" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu">NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu</a>> escreveu:</div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">António Pedro Marques is at least unabashedly post-modern, refusing to be chained by logic.</span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">You, Marc Aramini, keep confusing logic with science. Mathematics is built on logic. If the premise becomes false, then you no longer apply modus ponens.
You don’t need to lose your head. Every even number is divisible by two. What if the original premise is “This number is odd.” Then the theorem doesn’t apply. It doesn’t disprove modus ponens.</span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Rick Norwood</span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Urth [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net">mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marc Aramini<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 17, 2014 9:40 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> The Urth Mailing List<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: (urth) I, even I, would celebrate, in rhymes inept the great...</span></div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">These are linguistic truths built into the definitions themselves ...
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">the statement if A then B is either true linguistically
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">or it isn't, in which case the premise was wrong. It doesn't mean much else.</div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">ie "If I have no head I will die." technology advances, and now I can live without a head - the original premise then becomes false. Doesn't mean anything.</div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 6:23 AM, Norwood, Frederick Hudson <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu">NORWOODR@mail.etsu.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">Modus ponens is unprovable. You have to start somewhere. Is it possible that modus ponens is false? Of course it is possible. I may be a madman, and modus ponens may not say what I think it says. I may
be the only creature in the universe, and modus ponens may really mean, "Thou art God." But these objections can be raised in any discussion whatsoever, and after a while most people stop raising them. If I am sane, and if modus ponens says what I think
it says, then it seems to me bedrock on which to build. Further, if there are cases where A implies B, A is true, and B is false, then that ends the discussion, because every statement is both true and false, and in that case there is no point in saying anything
at all.<br clear="none">
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Rick Norwood<br clear="none">
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-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: Urth [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:urth-bounces@lists.urth.net">urth-bounces@lists.urth.net</a>] On Behalf Of Jeffery Wilson
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://clueland.com/">clueland.com</a><br clear="none">
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 1:56 AM<br clear="none">
To: The Urth Mailing List<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: (urth) I, even I, would celebrate, in rhymes inept the great...</div>
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<div class="yiv6074490304MsoNormal">On 10/16/2014 7:07 AM, Norwood, Frederick Hudson wrote:<br clear="none">
> Jeffery Wilson: I do say A is A. That's called the reflexive property of equality. And, yes, I've read the Lewis Carroll bit. Even wrote a poem about it.<br clear="none">
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If you already know that the modus ponens is unprovable, and are familiar with reflexive equality which is axiomatic, why are you bothering to hold up modus ponens as an example of an absolute truth?<br clear="none">
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--<br clear="none">
Jeff Wilson - < <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jwilson@clueland.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jwilson@clueland.com">jwilson@clueland.com</a> ><br clear="none">
A&M Texarkana Computational Intelligence Lab < <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.tamut.edu/cil">
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