<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div style="" class=""><br style=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>One may imagine knights, rooks vs bishops, and of course queens. Even pawns can capture <br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>en passant. <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Plus, if a pawn makes it to the end of the board, they can be brought back as a more powerful<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">piece. I think Wolfe intends this analogy for Severian (The Conciliator/New Sun) after he returns<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">from Yesod.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent;
font-style: normal;" class=""><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class="">---Good one. Except he's almost more like a queen, at least after he becomes a god (see below).<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>Knights are especially prominent (Jonas) and yet especially limited. Which best represents the <br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>Green Man? <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">As per my discussion with Jeffrery, I see The Green Man as a rook (without horizontal abilities), <br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">able to make unlimited moves up and down one timeline (Urth to Ushas) but not able to explore<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">alternate realities,
like Ragnarok. I think this in part because The Green Man is intent on "helping"<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Severian. <br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class="">---Works for me.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><br style="" class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style:
normal;" class=""><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class="">>Note that kings are basically important pawns that can move backward as well as castle.<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Hm, that's a toughie. Maybe Severian is most like a King, at least before he reaches Yesod. He<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">can move a space backward or forward in time when he does his healing trick with the Claw.<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class="">---He already has become Autarch, which is a mundane sort of king, weaker than a queen. But
almost from the beginning, he can move backward as you say, even before he elevates again after his apotheosis.</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class=""><br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;" class="">Funny how this turns some basic assumptions on their heads. A medieval king was a "temporal" power, bound by time, while popes were a sort of spiritual emperor. Severian is also a creature of time (only the Increate is not) but is not bound by it.<br></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"
class=""><br style="" class="">_______________________________________________</div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div class="" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div class="" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="" class="" dir="ltr"> <font style="" class="" size="2" face="Arial"> On Friday, October 17, 2014 12:09 PM, Lee <severiansola@hotmail.com> wrote:<br style="" class=""> </font> </div> <blockquote class="" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""> <div style="" class=""><br style="" class=""> "Tzadkiel compares Severian, as a human, to a pawn. I take the chessboard to be the symbol<br style="" class="">for
time. Humans (normally) like a pawn on a chessboard, can only move forward and one<br style="" class="">space at a time."<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>David Stockhoff: <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>That's a handy analogy, if not a complete system. <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Yes, I think Wolfe meant it only as a rough starting point. I've made some of the extrapolations<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">you make myself but you raise some interesting questions.<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>There do seem to be essential limitations on all the time-traveling characters. <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Except for The Increate? (who may not be a "character" and probably doesn't need to "travel" <br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">being in all places and
all times simultaneously).<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>One may imagine knights, rooks vs bishops, and of course queens. Even pawns can capture <br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>en passant. <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Plus, if a pawn makes it to the end of the board, they can be brought back as a more powerful<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">piece. I think Wolfe intends this analogy for Severian (The Conciliator/New Sun) after he returns<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">from Yesod.<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>On the other hand, no chess pieces travel only backward as do Ossipago et al. <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">True although it has been argued that B, F and O must travel forward in time at least
long enough<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">to converse with Severian and watch a play, etc.<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>Knights are especially prominent (Jonas) and yet especially limited. Which best represents the <br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>Green Man? <br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">As per my discussion with Jeffrery, I see The Green Man as a rook (without horizontal abilities), <br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">able to make unlimited moves up and down one timeline (Urth to Ushas) but not able to explore<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">alternate realities, like Ragnarok. I think this in part because The Green Man is intent on "helping"<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Severian. Doesn't the concept of "helping" become superfluous if you can explore various timelines<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">in which
any outcome can happen?<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">>Note that kings are basically important pawns that can move backward as well as castle.<br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">Hm, that's a toughie. Maybe Severian is most like a King, at least before he reaches Yesod. He<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">can move a space backward or forward in time when he does his healing trick with the Claw.<br style="" class=""><br style="" class="">And he being replaced by an Eidolon is sort of like castling. <br style="" class="">_______________________________________________<br style="" class="">Urth Mailing List<br style="" class="">To post, write <a style="" class="" ymailto="mailto:urth@urth.net" href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br style=""
class="">Subscription/information: <a style="" class="" href="http://www.urth.net/" target="_blank">http://www.urth.net</a><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""><br style="" class=""></div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>