<div dir="ltr">That Green Man might be a damn Martian ... </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Marc Aramini <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marcaramini@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">He does manage to beget a sun, though.</div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Marc Aramini <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marcaramini@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="ltr"><div>In the story, Early Summer lies to her husband and tells him that Spring Wind is his son, when in fact he is born of the red flower without a thorn. Perhaps the Green Man is partially alien too, and only believes himself a true descendent of man.</div><div><br></div><div>The Green Man warns Severian that if he begets a son, it will be his enemy. Sev takes this as a generic prophecy.</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Marc Aramini <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marcaramini@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="ltr"><div>Anyway, as I think Andrew Mason surmised long ago, the half vegetable Spring Wind is Mars/March, son of Early Summer/June/Juno, Bird of the Wood is Rheas Silvia (whom Mars begets Romulus and Remus upon) ... </div><div>so how is the Green Man related to Mars? The name of Mars is Verthandi now, eh? hmmm </div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Marc Aramini <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marcaramini@gmail.com" target="_blank">marcaramini@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="ltr"><div>Yes ... it seems that Spring Wind is much more Green Man than Typhon ...</div><div>and I have noted the Green Man feeds off the light of the New Sun in something I am writing up now. </div><div><br></div><div>The story of Hyacinthus, where flowers spring up from blood, is vital to the Short Sun universe ... somehow this Spring Wind story is its opposite, I think. A cyclic kind of communion is implied. fruit to wine to blood, returning to flowers. Severian's blood on that thorn also somehow completes the Eucharistic cycle.</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Lee <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:severiansola@hotmail.com" target="_blank">severiansola@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">>Marc Aramini: Spring Wind being half plant caught me a bit off guard -<br>
<br>
>I obviously hadn't read that since I devised the man-tree hybrid scheme<br>
<br>
>of Short Sun. Definitely those embedded stories would have told us the real<br>
<br>
>plot and its denouement in a world in which Urth of the New Sun was never<br>
<br>
>written, but they are still somewhat opaque in their syncretic blending of stories<br>
<br>
>of Mowgli, Moses, myth, and more. What is the Red Flower, the rose without thorns,<br>
<br>
>which gives birth to Spring Wind? Severian's Claw of the Conciliator probably winds up<br>
<br>
>being the thorn of a flower dipped in his blood.<br>
<br>
<br>
IIRC you connect this theme to the Vironese custom of plant naming of women and animal<br>
<br>
naming of men. Also to the connection between botanic parasitic vine/multi-limbed trees<br>
<br>
and the zoological parasitic inhumi/multi-limbed Neighbors.<br>
<br>
<br>
I'm pretty sure you've mentioned noticing that early in Shadow of the Torturer, Severian<br>
<br>
describes anticipating a certain light (New Sun) which "engendered life in whatever<br>
<br>
objects it fell upon, so that a leaf plucked from a bush grew slender legs and waving feelers..."<br>
<br>
<br>
I think you've connected all this to the original Transfiguration which involved Jesus emitting<br>
<br>
mystic beams of light signifying his (Conciliatory) status as bridge between heaven and earth.<br>
<br>
The Transfiguration continuing to be symbolized by a conversion of the grape and grain plant<br>
<br>
products to the animal products of blood and flesh.<br>
<br>
<br>
But I am hoping you include also the Green Man in the constellation of elements to this theme.<br>
<br>
Not only because of his combined nature of plant and animal essence, and his ostensible origin<br>
<br>
from the New Sun light.<br>
<br>
<br>
But also because of The Green Man as a pagan deity connected to Great God Pan and Dionysus<br>
<br>
worship for which there are undertones and hints throughout the entire Sun Series and which<br>
<br>
probably represents the connection between Judeo-pagan wine reverence and its importance to<br>
<br>
Christianity.<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Man" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Man</a><br>
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