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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/09/2014 15:25, Richard Simon
      wrote:<br>
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                    <div> Victor is described as human, albeit with
                      unusual green eyes.  The idea that he is his own
                      mother seems simply absurd, unless, again, both he
                      and everyone else are completely delusional.  She
                      only left after he reached puberty.</div>
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                  <div> 1. Nobody has to be delusional, except Victor,
                    in Shadow-Child fashion. Who else has seen his
                    mother? Old Trenchard? How reliable is his
                    testimony? Could he not have reasons for lying about
                    her? Does Victor, in fact, have a mother at all?</div>
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    <br>
    So you are saying Victor AND all the Shadow Children are
    delusional?  Why?  Their story makes sense as told.  Nobody needs to
    be delusional at all.  M. d'F notes that she is "a poor wretched
    woman one hardly ever sees" but presumably se is seen sometimes, or
    was before she left.  And Old Trenchard claims he and she were
    married by the priest.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1409581516.48002.YahooMailNeo@web171301.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
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                  <div>2. Everyone on Ste. Anne <span
                      style="font-style: italic;">is</span> slightly
                    delusional; the real Marsch notes the hallucinatory
                    quality of the light and atmosphere there in his
                    journal, and we know from his Shadow-Child testimony
                    ('A Story') that the Children can alter the
                    appearance of reality, even to the extent of hiding
                    two planets and their parent star from human
                    observation.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>However, I am <span style="font-style: italic;">not</span> arguing
                    that everyone on Ste. Anne, far less Ste. Croix, is
                    a shapeshifted aboriginal. Most people on both
                    planets are indubitably human, even though one
                    population, the people known as 'abos', has
                    forgotten its ancient roots. The Shadow Children,
                    who are in no way human, preserved some knowledge of
                    those roots and of human culture, but it was lost to
                    the original settlers from Earth. In case you missed
                    it earlier, I am proposing that the Annese (the
                    'abos') <span style="font-style: italic;">cannot</span> shapeshift.</div>
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    Victor's mother could shapeshift too, this is indicated when Old
    Trenchard notes: "She could talk to a man and he would believe her a
    girl, a virgin, hardly out of school.  But then if she did not like
    him she would become an old woman - a matter of the voice, the
    muscles of her face, the way she moved..."  Of course he thinks sge
    is just a good actress.<br>
    <br>
    Of course, if Victor and his mother were Shadow Children this would
    contradict your theory.  But what of thhe green eyes?  In 'A Story'
    these are clearly associated with the human-looking abos.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1409581516.48002.YahooMailNeo@web171301.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
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                    <div> If you want to deduce likely possibilities
                      from odd sentences, consider that Victor notes
                      that on Sainte Anne he got some information
                      suggesting that his mother had gone to Sainte
                      Croix, and consider the illiterate woman in the
                      cell beside him.  *That* is plausibly Victor's
                      mother; it is deduced from subtle clues, but
                      unlike the global hypotheses that turn everything
                      upside down, it does not destroy everything else
                      in the story whichever version you choose to
                      believe and therefore it is a thing that actually
                      *can* be left ambiguous.</div>
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                  <div> What are the subtle clues that suggest this
                    woman is Victor's mother? Pardon me if this has been
                    discussed before. And if she <span
                      style="font-style: italic;">is</span> his mother,
                    how does that help us understand anything, or move
                    the story along?</div>
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    <br>
    Those are the clues.  And it's NOT essential to the story, which is
    why Wolfe doesn't bother rubbing it in with lots of clues.  It
    simple adds a bit of colour and pathos. <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1409581516.48002.YahooMailNeo@web171301.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
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                    <div> The legs could point to Maitre, or they could
                      just be an example of female artifice. It doesn't
                      matter which, so it can be left ambiguous.  If it
                      mattered, like in your theory, Wolfe would not
                      have just left it there. (Look how he hammers in
                      the bit about abos having green eyes.)</div>
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                  <div>I dealt with this in my earlier reply. You're an
                    experienced Wolfe reader, aren't you? You should
                    know your man better. <span style="font-style:
                      italic;">Everything</span> in a Gene Wolfe story
                    is relevant, and the more incidental it appears at
                    first sight, the more critical it is likely to be to
                    a full understanding of the story and Wolfe's
                    intent.</div>
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    <br>
    I disagree.  To make everything crucial to an understanding of the
    story would result in books that are abstract puzzle pieces, not
    novels.<br>
    <br>
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      cite="mid:1409581516.48002.YahooMailNeo@web171301.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
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                    <div>Marsch hangs his coat on the hooks on the
                      bedroom door, AS HE USUALLY DOES.  Presumably this
                      is of some cosmic significance too.  And what of
                      the ankle straps of the man in the green uniform -
                      clearly the idea that he rides a bicycle is sheer
                      misdirection.  There must be at least one new
                      alien species to be identified here - but of
                      course - it's the bicycles, like in The Third
                      Policeman!  One of the other men is a horse-cab
                      driver.  People's cells mingle with vehicles -
                      Aunt Jeannine is the most advanced example.  This
                      explains the symbolism about identity and the
                      Abos' fear of technology; THEY are the true
                      humans, unwilling to merge with the metallic
                      overlords.  The robots in the prison camps - fully
                      converted people?  You get the point.  I could add
                      elements purportedly supporting this hypothesis
                      all day, or a hundred others like it.  How fast I
                      can add them depends on how much I allow myself to
                      ignore contradictions in the text, or assume
                      characters to be preternaturally delusional.  But
                      I would be going nowhere.</div>
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                  <div> Very impressive, but I doubt that you can point
                    me to one 'contradiction in the text' that negates
                    my reading of it. Especially since it is hardly mine
                    alone, and the author endorses elements of it, if
                    not the whole.<br clear="none">
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    According to your theory the hooks and ankle straps should be
    especially relevant, as they are so inconsequential?  So what do
    they mean?  Or can things be irrelevant after all?<br>
    <br>
    The contradiction is that Victor and the Shadow Children must be
    completely and utterly insane.  And the 'abos' too, if they have
    completely forgotten they were human.  Also, humans did not in fact
    develop space flight in prehistory.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1409581516.48002.YahooMailNeo@web171301.mail.ir2.yahoo.com"
      type="cite">
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                    <div><span style="font-size: 12pt;">If everything
                        exists to serve the author's purpose, then what
                        of everything that you are throwing away?  What
                        of Victor's relationship with his mother?  All
                        just a load of delusional nonsense, because
                        everything is actually supposed to be deduced
                        from one sentence mentioning that a guy has a
                        scarred head?</span><br>
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                  <div> What have I thrown away? Are you certain that
                    you have understood me correctly?</div>
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    Your theory throws away everything we are told of the origin of
    Shadow Children and abos in 'A Story'.<br>
    <br>
    - Gerry Quinn<br>
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