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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Thank you for your very thoughtful reply. The only thing I could add is that a serpent's fang carries deadly poison, while the Claw heals.<br><br>The funny thing is that before I read the books, when I only knew the titles and general outline, I assumed the Claw was a stylized cross, because a cross can resemble the talon of a bird - that's what I thought the Claw was.<br><br><hr>Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:36:44 -0800<br>From: whburth@gmail.com<br>To: urth@lists.urth.net<br>Subject: (urth) Claw = Fang?<br><br>Remembering, with Severian, that symbols create knowledge and human stories, rather then the other way around, here are some things I thought of when reading your question.<div><br></div><div>In the Eden story four entities are cursed, the serpent, the woman, the man, and the ground/dust.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The serpent's curse is that he will crawl on the ground and eat dust and that it's seed will be enemies of the woman's seed. The woman's descendants will smash the head of serpents because serpents bite their heels. </div>
<div><br></div><div>The woman's curse is that whatever physical pleasure she may have in procreation, only she will bear the incredible pain and risk of it. Her husband will only experience the pleasure of it, while he rules over her.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The man's curse is identical with the curse of the ground. The dust is cursed to bring forth thorns, and the man is cursed to extract his (and the woman's) food painfully from thorn filled fields. For all the days of his life, until he returns to that cursed and thorn filled dust from which he came. </div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The dust of the ground is cursed with serpents fangs and thorns. And the dust of ground is the origin and destiny of humanity.</div><div><br></div><div>This is in the book of Genesis. In the book of Exodus the Israelites are plagued with serpents and as a remedy Moses makes an image of a serpent and lifts it on a staff for all to see and be cured of the venomous bites. So the symbol of the curse here becomes also the symbol of its cure.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So, Christian symbolism builds on this by making by making the complete humiliation of Jesus, which culminates in a crown of thorns, as he is lifted up on the cross, the very cure for the curse of humanity. And certainly the crucifixion is the Christian fulfillment of the curse where the seed of the woman's heel is bitten but he smashes the head of the serpent. But again, this very curse is also the cure.</div>
<div><br></div><div>One other Biblical mention, Paul says that he is given a thorn in the flesh (remember the flesh is the dust of the ground), and this thorn is a messenger of Satan, (the serpent), and when he asks God to remove it, God tells him it is actually there for God's purposes, because the weakness this thorn brings is also the source of his strength. So again, the curse is the cure. </div>
<div><br></div><div>It seems impossible to me to see any use of a thorn as a symbol without seeing an allusion also to the fangs of the serpent. </div>
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