Photogen and Nycteris is definitely one of the very best. Lilith and Phantastes are certainly meandering and oblique novels - but I think they're very powerful, undiluted fantasies - he taps into some deep mythopoiea and faerie in these in my opinion - lots of great individual scenes and elements too - plenty of creatures and not a little horror also - he's always struck me as a phantasmagorical Poe. I'd like to see whether their's a connection to Wolfe at all, either overtly or unintentionally.<div>
<br></div><div>-DOJP<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 4:08 AM, David Stockhoff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Just for the record, I can't find the "dull" MacDonald story I
thought I was looking for, and I can only guess it's buried among
the many ebook collections of his fiction on my old hard drive.<br>
<br>
But <i>Lilith </i>certainly fits the bill, and <i>Phantastes </i>is
not far behind. No worse than William Morris, though.<br>
<br>
<i>Photgen and Nycteris </i>is one of my favorites, along with
several others I can't locate at the moment.<br>
<br>
On 3/16/2012 4:32 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><span>I plan to read it to my daughter when she's old
enough---in a year or two. That's why I collected all the
MacDonald I have, though there was a selfish motivation as
well. <br>
</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>I have to apologize for shocking everyone, however.
It wasn't The Golden Key I was thinking of at all. Had I
read that as a child I might recall it more clearly than I
did in fact---probably as much as Curdie---but I enjoyed it
nevertheless.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>I am not sure which story it was that struck me as
stilted and dull, only that the protagonist was a girl. But
I shouldn't venture to opine until I get back home and find
the physical books.<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>Auden is amazing---no, not dull at all. But then he
never wrote stories for children, or did he?<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Daniel Petersen <a href="mailto:danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com" target="_blank"><danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> The
Urth Mailing List <a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank"><urth@lists.urth.net></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, March 16, 2012 3:30 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<div>I really enjoy the edition where it's
printed as its own small book, with illustrations by
Maurice Sendak and an afterword by W. H. Auden. (And I'll
side with Auden over Stockhoff as to the story and its
author's worth - but maybe the Stock finds Auden dull as
well? [If so only further proving my theory that he is
inhuman.])
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>You know, I actually first read that edition aloud to
my daughter when she was 5 or 6 and that was the go that
really bowled me over. David, do you know of any bairns
you can read it aloud to?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(Does anyone have experiences reading Wolfe aloud?
I've never done that, I don't think. Lafferty gains
whole new dimensions when you do it with him - I wonder
what it would be like with Wolfe. I picture it being
more of a reading to fellow adults scenario, rather than
to children.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-DOJP<br>
<br>
<div>On Fri, Mar 16,
2012 at 7:11 PM, Antonin Scriabin <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kierkegaurdian@gmail.com" target="_blank">kierkegaurdian@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The Golden Key was a favorite of mine growing up. I
wish I could find my copy!<br>
<br>
<div>On Fri, Mar 16,
2012 at 3:09 PM, Daniel Petersen <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com" target="_blank">danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's the BEST! You have no soul! You are not
human, you are machine!
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>(To be honest, it was on a second read that
it blew me away.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-DOJP
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On
Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 5:11 PM, DAVID
STOCKHOFF <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div><span>Golden Key: THAT's the
one. Dull, dull, dull, dull,
dull. <br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>;)<br>
</span></div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
James Wynn <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:crushtv@gmail.com" target="_blank">crushtv@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
The Urth Mailing List <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, March 16, 2012
10:19 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<div>
<div> Try some of his short
stories and novellas:<br>
<br>
Photogen and Nycteris (aka
Day Boy & Night Girl,
aka Son of the Day,
Daughter of Night)<br>
Light Princess (aka Little
Daylight)<br>
Golden Key<br>
Translations for Novalis<br>
<br>
Lewis and MacDonald never
met. But Lewis credited
MacDonald's fiction as an
important element in his
conversion. He (and the
reception of his children)
were important in the
publication of Alice in
Wonderland. Although he
was a pastor for a time,
his sermons and theology
got him in trouble and he
was eventually pushed out.<br>
<br>
J.<br>
<br>
On 3/16/2012 8:09 AM,
David Stockhoff wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
I'm not sure which of
MacDonald's books I
consider stilted and
boring, although I
encountered those as an
adult. But I loved the
Curdie books my mom read
to me when I was four or
five. <br>
<br>
On 3/15/2012 10:51 PM,
Craig Brewer wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<div><span>Phantastes
was a beautiful
book! Never
besmirch the
name of
MacDonald! heh
heh...<br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>As
someone who was
raised in a
relatively
a-religious
family, I
usually just
ignored the
obviously
religious bits
of
Lewis/Tolkien/whoever
else. But as I
got older, I
found that the
non-"preachy"
manner of
fictional
Christian works
actually worked
to explain why
faith was
interesting and
attractive.
After all, here
was some fantasy
that might be
real on a
certain level,
or at least a
number of people
thought so.</span></div>
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div><span>That's a
perspective I've
had trouble
explaining to
friends who had
that "betrayal"
reaction to
Narnia.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr">
<font face="Arial">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
David
Stockhoff <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank"><dstockhoff@verizon.net></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
The Urth
Mailing List <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank"><urth@lists.urth.net></a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday,
March 15, 2012
9:42 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: (urth)
Lupiverse(es)<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
On 3/15/2012
10:32 PM,
António Pedro
Marques wrote:<br>
> Wasn't
MacDonald a good
half century
older? And he
was one of those
mollified
Presbyterians.<br>
> But is it
fair to
criticise
didacticism
which didn't
pretend to be
anything else? I
mean, neither
MacDonald nor
Lewis, that I
know of, tried
to present their
books as
doctrinally
free. At least
MacDonald was
overt as to
their didactic
nature. It isn't
Lewis's fault if
the Narnia books
got popular that
they were pushed
everywhere as
mere children's
books without a
caveat that they
were had a
religious
undercurrent.
Maybe the real
issue is that
they are popular
because that
undercurrent
pleases people,
just as Praise
of Empire
pleased others,
and those who
take exception
to that way of
writing resent
the popularity.<br>
<br>
Well, if it's
boring, it's
boring. And it
depends on what
you mean by
"didn't
pretend"---as
with Lewis, most
of his readers
were children.
If you have no
idea what you
might be
reading, you
can't know
whether it's
pretense or not.<br>
<br>
Certainly Lewis
wasn't
responsible for
whatever
marketing got
his books in my
local library
and into my
hands. But I
doubt they were
and are popular
because they are
religious:
rather, they
probably are
popular because
they are
accessible,
imaginative
(sometimes
magical, as you
said),
action-packed,
well-written,
comforting
(Aslan always
appeared to set
things right),
and morally
nonthreatening.
Girls read them
as much as boys
did, and no
parents objected
to them.<br>
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