Photogen and Nycteris is definitely one of the very best.  Lilith and Phantastes are certainly meandering and oblique novels - but I think they're very powerful, undiluted fantasies - he taps into some deep mythopoiea and faerie in these in my opinion - lots of great individual scenes and elements too - plenty of creatures and not a little horror also - he's always struck me as a phantasmagorical Poe.  I'd like to see whether their's a connection to Wolfe at all, either overtly or unintentionally.<div>
<br></div><div>-DOJP<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 4:08 AM, David Stockhoff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Just for the record, I can't find the "dull" MacDonald story I
    thought I was looking for, and I can only guess it's buried among
    the many ebook collections of his fiction on my old hard drive.<br>
    <br>
    But <i>Lilith </i>certainly fits the bill, and <i>Phantastes </i>is
    not far behind. No worse than William Morris, though.<br>
    <br>
    <i>Photgen and Nycteris </i>is one of my favorites, along with
    several others I can't locate at the moment.<br>
    <br>
    On 3/16/2012 4:32 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
        <div><span>I plan to read it to my daughter when she's old
            enough---in a year or two. That's why I collected all the
            MacDonald I have, though there was a selfish motivation as
            well. <br>
          </span></div>
        <div><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><span>I have to apologize for shocking everyone, however.
            It wasn't The Golden Key I was thinking of at all. Had I
            read that as a child I might recall it more clearly than I
            did in fact---probably as much as Curdie---but I enjoyed it
            nevertheless.</span></div>
        <div><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div><span>I am not sure which story it was that struck me as
            stilted and dull, only that the protagonist was a girl. But
            I shouldn't venture to opine until I get back home and find
            the physical books.<br>
          </span></div>
        <div><br>
          <span></span></div>
        <div><span>Auden is amazing---no, not dull at all. But then he
            never wrote stories for children, or did he?<br>
          </span></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
          <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
            <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial">
                <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
                Daniel Petersen <a href="mailto:danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com" target="_blank"><danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com></a><br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> The
                Urth Mailing List <a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank"><urth@lists.urth.net></a> <br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                Friday, March 16, 2012 3:30 PM<br>
                <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)<br>
              </font> </div>
            <br>
            <div>I really enjoy the edition where it's
              printed as its own small book, with illustrations by
              Maurice Sendak and an afterword by W. H. Auden.  (And I'll
              side with Auden over Stockhoff as to the story and its
              author's worth - but maybe the Stock finds Auden dull as
              well?  [If so only further proving my theory that he is
              inhuman.])
              <div>
                <br>
              </div>
              <div>You know, I actually first read that edition aloud to
                my daughter when she was 5 or 6 and that was the go that
                really bowled me over.  David, do you know of any bairns
                you can read it aloud to?</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>(Does anyone have experiences reading Wolfe aloud?
                 I've never done that, I don't think.  Lafferty gains
                whole new dimensions when you do it with him - I wonder
                what it would be like with Wolfe.  I picture it being
                more of a reading to fellow adults scenario, rather than
                to children.)</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>-DOJP<br>
                <br>
                <div>On Fri, Mar 16,
                  2012 at 7:11 PM, Antonin Scriabin <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kierkegaurdian@gmail.com" target="_blank">kierkegaurdian@gmail.com</a>></span>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    The Golden Key was a favorite of mine growing up.  I
                    wish I could find my copy!<br>
                    <br>
                    <div>On Fri, Mar 16,
                      2012 at 3:09 PM, Daniel Petersen <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com" target="_blank">danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com</a>></span>
                      wrote:<br>
                      <blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                         It's the BEST!  You have no soul!  You are not
                        human, you are machine!
                        <div>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <div>(To be honest, it was on a second read that
                          it blew me away.)</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>-DOJP
                          <div>
                            <div><br>
                              <br>
                              <div>On
                                Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 5:11 PM, DAVID
                                STOCKHOFF <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank">dstockhoff@verizon.net</a>></span>
                                wrote:<br>
                                <blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                  <div>
                                    <div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
                                      <div><span>Golden Key: THAT's the
                                          one. Dull, dull, dull, dull,
                                          dull. <br>
                                        </span></div>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <span></span></div>
                                      <div><span>;)<br>
                                        </span></div>
                                      <div>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
                                        <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                                          <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial">
                                              <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
                                              James Wynn <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:crushtv@gmail.com" target="_blank">crushtv@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                              <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
                                              The Urth Mailing List <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a>>
                                              <br>
                                              <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                                              Friday, March 16, 2012
                                              10:19 AM<br>
                                              <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                                              Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)<br>
                                            </font> </div>
                                          <br>
                                          <div>
                                            <div> Try some of his short
                                              stories and novellas:<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Photogen and Nycteris (aka
                                              Day Boy & Night Girl,
                                              aka Son of the Day,
                                              Daughter of Night)<br>
                                              Light Princess (aka Little
                                              Daylight)<br>
                                              Golden Key<br>
                                              Translations for Novalis<br>
                                              <br>
                                              Lewis and MacDonald never
                                              met. But Lewis credited
                                              MacDonald's fiction as an
                                              important element in his
                                              conversion. He (and the
                                              reception of his children)
                                              were important in the
                                              publication of Alice in
                                              Wonderland. Although he
                                              was a pastor for a time,
                                              his sermons and theology
                                              got him in trouble and he
                                              was eventually pushed out.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              J.<br>
                                              <br>
                                              On 3/16/2012 8:09 AM,
                                              David Stockhoff wrote:
                                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                                I'm not sure which of
                                                MacDonald's books I
                                                consider stilted and
                                                boring, although I
                                                encountered those as an
                                                adult. But I loved the
                                                Curdie books my mom read
                                                to me when I was four or
                                                five. <br>
                                                <br>
                                                On 3/15/2012 10:51 PM,
                                                Craig Brewer wrote:
                                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                                  <div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
                                                    <div><span>Phantastes
                                                        was a beautiful
                                                        book! Never
                                                        besmirch the
                                                        name of
                                                        MacDonald! heh
                                                        heh...<br>
                                                      </span></div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                      <span></span></div>
                                                    <div><span>As
                                                        someone who was
                                                        raised in a
                                                        relatively
                                                        a-religious
                                                        family, I
                                                        usually just
                                                        ignored the
                                                        obviously
                                                        religious bits
                                                        of
                                                        Lewis/Tolkien/whoever
                                                        else. But as I
                                                        got older, I
                                                        found that the
                                                        non-"preachy"
                                                        manner of
                                                        fictional
                                                        Christian works
                                                        actually worked
                                                        to explain why
                                                        faith was
                                                        interesting and
                                                        attractive.
                                                        After all, here
                                                        was some fantasy
                                                        that might be
                                                        real on a
                                                        certain level,
                                                        or at least a
                                                        number of people
                                                        thought so.</span></div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                      <span></span></div>
                                                    <div><span>That's a
                                                        perspective I've
                                                        had trouble
                                                        explaining to
                                                        friends who had
                                                        that "betrayal"
                                                        reaction to
                                                        Narnia.</span></div>
                                                    <div><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                                                      <div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
                                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <font face="Arial">
                                                          <hr size="1">
                                                          <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
                                                          David
                                                          Stockhoff <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net" target="_blank"><dstockhoff@verizon.net></a><br>
                                                          <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
                                                          The Urth
                                                          Mailing List <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank"><urth@lists.urth.net></a>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
                                                          Thursday,
                                                          March 15, 2012
                                                          9:42 PM<br>
                                                          <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
                                                          Re: (urth)
                                                          Lupiverse(es)<br>
                                                          </font> </div>
                                                        <br>
                                                        On 3/15/2012
                                                        10:32 PM,
                                                        António Pedro
                                                        Marques wrote:<br>
                                                        > Wasn't
                                                        MacDonald a good
                                                        half century
                                                        older? And he
                                                        was one of those
                                                        mollified
                                                        Presbyterians.<br>
                                                        > But is it
                                                        fair to
                                                        criticise
                                                        didacticism
                                                        which didn't
                                                        pretend to be
                                                        anything else? I
                                                        mean, neither
                                                        MacDonald nor
                                                        Lewis, that I
                                                        know of, tried
                                                        to present their
                                                        books as
                                                        doctrinally
                                                        free. At least
                                                        MacDonald was
                                                        overt as to
                                                        their didactic
                                                        nature. It isn't
                                                        Lewis's fault if
                                                        the Narnia books
                                                        got popular that
                                                        they were pushed
                                                        everywhere as
                                                        mere children's
                                                        books without a
                                                        caveat that they
                                                        were had a
                                                        religious
                                                        undercurrent.
                                                        Maybe the real
                                                        issue is that
                                                        they are popular
                                                        because that
                                                        undercurrent
                                                        pleases people,
                                                        just as Praise
                                                        of Empire
                                                        pleased others,
                                                        and those who
                                                        take exception
                                                        to that way of
                                                        writing resent
                                                        the popularity.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Well, if it's
                                                        boring, it's
                                                        boring. And it
                                                        depends on what
                                                        you mean by
                                                        "didn't
                                                        pretend"---as
                                                        with Lewis, most
                                                        of his readers
                                                        were children.
                                                        If you have no
                                                        idea what you
                                                        might be
                                                        reading, you
                                                        can't know
                                                        whether it's
                                                        pretense or not.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Certainly Lewis
                                                        wasn't
                                                        responsible for
                                                        whatever
                                                        marketing got
                                                        his books in my
                                                        local library
                                                        and into my
                                                        hands. But I
                                                        doubt they were
                                                        and are popular
                                                        because they are
                                                        religious:
                                                        rather, they
                                                        probably are
                                                        popular because
                                                        they are
                                                        accessible,
                                                        imaginative
                                                        (sometimes
                                                        magical, as you
                                                        said),
                                                        action-packed,
                                                        well-written,
                                                        comforting
                                                        (Aslan always
                                                        appeared to set
                                                        things right),
                                                        and morally
                                                        nonthreatening.
                                                        Girls read them
                                                        as much as boys
                                                        did, and no
                                                        parents objected
                                                        to them.<br>
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