<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>You're right that God the character in PL doesn't seem very Wolfean...(but note also how different "the Son" and "God" are as characters in the poem.) But I'm thinking more of Milton's weird theological writings in _Christian Doctrine_ that often got him accused of "heresy." Where it comes out in PL is more in the narratives of the creation and when Rafael describes the cosmos:</span></div><div><br><span></span></div><div><span>From Book 5 (quickly stolen from a random site):</span></div><div><br><span></span></div><div>O <span class="mi">Adam</span>, one <a name="spirit2"><span class="varspell" title="Almighty">Almightie</span></a> is, from whom<br>
All things proceed, and up to him return,<span class="line" id="line470"> [ 470 ]</span><br>
If not <span class="varspell" title="depraved">deprav'd</span> from good, created all<br>
Such to perfection, <a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Emilton/reading_room/pl/book_5/notes.shtml#matter" target="notes">one first matter all</a>,<br>
<span class="varspell" title="Endued">Indu'd</span> with various forms, various degrees<br>
Of substance, and in things that live, of life;<br>
But more <span class="varspell" title="refined">refin'd</span>, more spiritous, and pure,<span class="line" id="line475"> [ 475 ]</span><br>
As <span class="varspell" title="nearer">neerer</span> to him <span class="varspell" title="placed">plac't</span> or <span class="varspell" title="nearer">neerer</span> tending<br>
Each in <span class="varspell" title="their">thir</span> several active <span class="varspell" title="Spheres">Sphears</span> <span class="varspell" title="assigned">assignd</span>,<br>
Till body up to spirit work, in bounds<br>
<span class="varspell" title="Proportioned">Proportiond</span> to each kind. So <a name="root">from</a> the root<br>
Springs lighter the green stalk, from thence the leaves<span class="line" id="line480"> [ 480 ]</span><br>
More <span class="varspell" title="airy">aerie</span>, last the bright consummate <span class="varspell" title="flower">floure</span><br>
Spirits odorous breathes: <span class="varspell" title="flowers">flours</span> and <span class="varspell" title="their">thir</span> fruit<br>
<span class="varspell" title="Man's">Mans</span> nourishment, by gradual scale <span class="varspell" title="sublimed">sublim'd</span><br>
To vital Spirits aspire, to animal,<br>
To intellectual, give both life and sense,<span class="line" id="line485"> [ 485 ]</span><br>
<span class="varspell" title="Fancy">Fansie</span> and understanding, whence the <span class="varspell" title="Soul">Soule</span><br>
Reason receives, and reason is her being,<br>
<a name="discursive">Discursive</a>, or Intuitive; discourse<br>
Is oftest yours, the latter most is ours,<br>
Differing but in degree, of kind the same.<span class="line" id="line490"> [ 490 ]</span><br>
Wonder not then, what God for you saw good<br>
If I refuse not, but convert, as you,<br>
To proper substance; time may come when men<br>
With Angels may participate, and find<br>
No inconvenient Diet, nor too light Fare:<span class="line" id="line495"> [ 495 ]</span><br>
And from these corporal nutriments perhaps<br>
Your bodies may at last turn all to <a name="spirit">Spirit</a>,<br>
<span class="varspell" title="Improved">Improv'd</span> by tract of time, and <span class="varspell" title="winged">wingd</span> ascend<br>
Ethereal, as <span class="varspell" title="we">wee</span>, or may at choice<br>
Here or in <span class="varspell" title="Heavenly">Heav'nly</span> Paradises dwell;<span class="line" id="line500"> [ 500 ]</span><br>
<a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Emilton/reading_room/pl/book_5/notes.shtml#obedient" target="notes">If ye be found obedient</a>, and retain<br>
Unalterably firm his love entire<br>
<a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Emilton/reading_room/pl/book_5/notes.shtml#whose" target="notes">Whose <span class="varspell" title="progeny">progenie</span></a> you are. Mean while enjoy<br>
Your fill what happiness this <span class="varspell" title="happy">happie</span> state<br>
Can comprehend, incapable of more.<span class="line" id="line505"> [ 505 ]</span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Daniel Petersen <danielottojackpetersen@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Craig Brewer <cnbrewer@yahoo.com>; The Urth Mailing List <urth@lists.urth.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 15, 2012 1:07 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: (urth) Lupiverse(es)<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div id="yiv221264321">Well, let me just say that having recently re-read Milton's Paradise Lost (my all-time favourite poem by my all-time favourite poet), I cannot imagine two more opposed doctrines of God than those evinced respectively in PL and Wolfe's Solar Cycle (particularly the Outsider): where Milton professes profusely that the God of his epic is good, just, fair, and perhaps above all loving - yet one finds the actual portrayal of that God to be very unconvincing in all these areas - Wolfe only rather quietly and rarely overtly claims this for the God of the Solar Cycle, yet demonstrates just such attributes very, very convincingly in the palpable pathos of (for example) the Outsider's interactions with Silk and, through Silk as a leader, his interactions with an oppressed people.<div>
<br></div><div>The God of the Long and Short Sun, at least, looks far too implicitly and impressively Trinitarian to be saddled with Milton's monism. IMHO.<br><div><br></div><div>-DOJP<br><br><div class="yiv221264321gmail_quote">
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Craig Brewer <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:cnbrewer@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:cnbrewer@yahoo.com">cnbrewer@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="yiv221264321gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><div><span>David: >></span>On second glance the story seems based in some form of Platonism in which all material things strive to reunite with the Ideal.<br>
<br></div><div><span>I said it before, but I like to repeat myself lately. David's idea about Platonism here is almost identical to Milton's "monistic" theology. One day, I need to <br></span></div><div>
write up the similarities I see. Besides, it'd be fun to suggest that a Catholic writer and a violently anti-Catholic writer both had similar theologies...at least in their more imaginative writings.</div><br> <div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;">
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