<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=severiansola@hotmail.com
href="mailto:severiansola@hotmail.com">Lee Berman</A> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">>
>> But 10,000 years hence won't some people snicker at the ridiculous
belief in <BR>> >> "science" we have; laughing at such folly as
neurology and sub-atomic physics <BR>> >> as we snicker at thunderbolts
from Zeus and witches riding brooms?<BR><BR>> > Gerry Quinn: Some people
do even now. However, I don’t think our understanding <BR>> > of
such matters is likely to be reversed, though it may be
deepened.<BR> <BR>> Well of course you would think that. Your belief in
science is akin to the ancient<BR>> Greek's belief in Zeus or a Medieval
villager's belief in witchcraft. If asked, they<BR>> would predict a future
in 2011 where knowledge and belief in Zeus or witches would <BR>> remain
intact though perhaps deepened. </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">I
thought this kind of relativism was one of the concepts that have been
superseded! Are you trying to resuscitate the Science Wars?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">There’s
a difference between science and the study of Zeus and witches (and the ideas of
the ancients regarding these may well retain validity in their own sphere, but
not the sphere of science). </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"></DIV>
<DIV><BR> <BR>> I hope you won't try the argument that Zeus'
thunderbolts and witches crop hexings was <BR>> fake while sub-atomic physics
and neurosurgery are real. Ancient experts predicted <BR>> thunderstorms and
crop failures and they were usually right and came to be believed.<BR>> You
have never seen an electron and you have not done original research on the
subject. <BR>> Electricity seems to work so you believe the experts who
tell you how it works. Same for <BR>> brain surgery when you submit to the
knife. Belief in science and technology is fully a <BR>> matter of faith as
much as mythology/religion.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sorry, but that is incorrect. The epistemology by which we learn the
truths of science is different and more robust than the epistemology which led
to the type of explanations you are talking about.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now for purposes of discussing Gene Wolfe’s books, the balance tilts a
little more in your direction compared to the study of the natural world.
Nevertheless, the books describe a universe that, like our own, is under the
rule of natural and permanent laws. The speed of light will be about the
same in a million years, even if we can measure it more accurately. It was
the same when it was first usefully measured in the seventeenth century, though
Romer was out by about 20%.</DIV>
<DIV><BR> <BR>> > When I say there is no magic in the Sun books, I’m
not talking about fakery, just saying <BR>> > that it is the kind of
universe that runs on natural rather than magical laws.<BR> <BR>> I tend
to agree. But don't discount fakery. Wolfe doesn't, as Jerry's quote
illustrates.<BR>> In our discussion on inhumi you expressed the belief that
they really do achieve escape<BR>> velocity using muscles and survive for
long periods in the void because Wolfe doesn't worry <BR>> much about natural
laws in his work. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>He doesn’t worry too much about accurate science. But natural laws
are very important to him. It’s the sort of world he’s creating that
matters, not the exact laws that are applicable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Gerry Quinn</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>