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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=danldo@gmail.com
href="mailto:danldo@gmail.com">Dan'l Danehy-Oakes</A> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><STRONG><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f5f5f5" size=2 face=Tahoma>> </FONT></STRONG>I see
the basic problem. You do not know the difference between a soul<BR>> and a
mind.<BR><BR>> I suggest you read some basic pneumatic theology.</DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Has
theology advanced so far as to have a standard answer regarding the souls of
robots, or digitised personalities running in a computer?</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">The
Catholic Encyclopaedia (presumably referring only to humans and animals)
says:</DIV></DIV>
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face="Times New Roman">“The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal
principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are
animated. The term </FONT><A
href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10321a.htm"><FONT
face="Times New Roman">"mind"</FONT></A><FONT face="Times New Roman"> usually
denotes this principle as the subject of our conscious states, while "soul"
denotes the source of our vegetative activities as well.”</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman">On “mind” it says:</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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face=Verdana><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If we define the </FONT></FONT><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm"><FONT
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" face=Verdana>soul</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana> as
the principle within me, by which I feel, think, will, and by which my body is
animated, we may provide a definition of mind of fairly wide acceptance by
merely omitting the last clause. That is, in this usage mind designates the
</FONT><A href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm"><FONT
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" face=Verdana>soul</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana> as
the source of conscious life, feeling, thought, and volition, abstraction being
made from the vegetative functions. On the other hand the term </FONT><A
href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm"><FONT
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" face=Verdana>soul</FONT></A><FONT face=Verdana>
emphasizes the note of substantiality and the </FONT><A
href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12462a.htm"><FONT
style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" face=Verdana>property</FONT></A></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> of animating
principle.</FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
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size=2 face=Verdana>So while they are not identical, they are rather strongly
linked. And that is in humans, not the digitised personalities we have
been discussing. What do you think their souls consist
of?</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
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size=2 face=Verdana>And you didn’t answer my question about
Mucor.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">-
Gerry Quinn</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV><BR><BR>On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Gerry Quinn
<gerry@bindweed.com> wrote:<BR>><BR>><BR>> From: Dan'l
Danehy-Oakes<BR>><BR>><BR>>> Gerry Quinn wrote:<BR>><BR>>>
> What powers of Mucor are you saying are magic?<BR>><BR>>> All of
them.<BR>><BR>> But she has a modified brain, and the things she does are
similar to the<BR>> things done by others, who do not seem to do them by
magic. Why do you say<BR>> Mucor in particular is
magic?<BR>><BR>><BR>>> > The Whorl gods’ possession<BR>>>
> of people is explicitly glossed as technology rather than
magic,<BR>><BR>>> Correct.<BR>><BR>>> > and that surely
also involves the soul.<BR>><BR>>> Not so fast. We get nothing from the
point of view of a possessed<BR>>> person, except at a double remove (what
is told to Silk, as re-related<BR>>> from him to the authors of the Book
of Silk).<BR>><BR>> Yes, but since neither Silk nor Horn was ever
possessed, that is the only<BR>> information we can have. It is
intrinsic in the structure of the book, and<BR>> not a reason to be
suspicious.<BR>><BR>> Possession by a god seems to be quite similar to
possession by Mucor. It<BR>> leaves similar traces: Mamelta says “I
feel I am Mucor”. While the<BR>> possessee may not remember events,
they seem to be compatible with what we<BR>> are told by
Kypris-in-Chenille<BR>><BR>><BR>>> > Do chems have
souls?<BR>><BR>>> They seem to!<BR>><BR>>> > One imagines
so, and Mucor doesn’t mistake Quetzal for one. Yet<BR>>> > their
soul presumably starts off as a computer program.<BR>><BR>>> No. A
chem's _mind_ starts as a program. The mind is not the soul.<BR>><BR>> If
a chem’s soul is not its mind, what is it?<BR>><BR>> And what about the
Whorl gods? We are told what they put inside possessees<BR>> is the
pattern of the god, the program. That seems to identify the soul<BR>>
with the program, and by extension the mind.<BR>><BR>> - Gerry
Quinn<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Urth Mailing
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http://www.urth.net<BR><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>Dan'l
Danehy-Oakes<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Urth Mailing
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