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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=dstockhoff@verizon.net
href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">David Stockhoff</A> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">On
12/16/2011 9:02 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:<BR><BR>> > However, it has no
obvious magical or even “magical” powers; the only <BR>> > time we might
ascribe such things to it is when Baldander’s energy <BR>> > mace is
shattered (as is the sword) in striking it. The only <BR>> >
fairy-tale-like element, really, is the sword being there for use at <BR>>
> the right time; and it’s hard to think of any story involving <BR>> >
adventure that such things don’t happen. We might wonder whether <BR>> >
previous Severians got smashed by Baldander’s mace.<BR>> > It’s a hero’s
sword more than a magic sword, IMO.<BR><BR>> No question. It runs against the
cliche, but carries it through <BR>> nevertheless. Just as Elric's sword
marks, determines, and hurts and <BR>> even betrays him, so does
Severian's.</DIV></DIV>
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doesn’t betray him – it is destroyed saving him. But that’s by the
by.</DIV></DIV>
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<DIV><BR>> > > And what do you mean, "Dorcas was under no enchantment"?
Did you read<BR>> > > the book?<BR>> > Yes. To what enchantment
do you refer?<BR>> That which kept her preserved and asleep for some 20
years. (You can <BR>> argue that this did not happen, and I agree. But then
there are two <BR>> narratives here, aren't there? And one of them is
informed by various <BR>> tales about preserving sleep underground, and women
in lakes.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That’s a circular argument. “Dorcas is like Sleeping Beauty.
Therefore she was under an enchantment, rather than dead. Therefore she is
like Sleeping Beauty.” </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>> > > If you don't know fairies live underground, then you
know nothing of <BR>> > > the topic upon which you so boldly
discourse.<BR>> > I know some fairies live underground, as do some men,
and some other <BR>> > creatures. Are you saying that all fairies live
underground? Pardon me <BR>> > if I ask for a reference.<BR>> Again?
Try the Mabinogion.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You already admitted in another post that fairies can live almost anywhere,
depending on the particular complex of legends.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>> > Let us <BR>> > suppose every story to be a thread
in a large multi-dimensional space <BR>> > of story elements. A couple of
points on the thread of Dorcas’s story <BR>> > lie relatively close to a
couple of points on the Sleeping Beauty <BR>> > thread, where ‘relatively
close’ includes ‘dead’ as being close to <BR>> > ‘under an enchanted
sleep’. As I’ve pointed out, we could find many <BR>> > similarly close
threads in all kinds of works; I just mentioned an <BR>> > example at
random.<BR><BR>> You're comparing Buffy to Wolfe? Is there a question?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Why shouldn’t I? Both Buffy and BotNS are large works that play
with elements of many fantasy genres; in that at least they are very
alike. They are similar in that you can find episodes that are weakly like
Sleeping Beauty, but not strongly so – I don’t recall any strong SB reference in
Buffy either, though I could have forgotten or missed one. The point is
that any such work will have threads passing near to points in a very large
volume of story space, and therefore the fact that a thread passes near a point
is not in itself of much significance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>> > We could even find more examples in BotNS! Does Valeria not
also have <BR>> > some correspondences to Sleeping Beauty? And what about
Typhon? Shall <BR>> > I waffle on about how in the Typhon scene Wolfe
mashes up Sleeping <BR>> > Beauty and Beauty and the Beast, with Severian
taking the part of the <BR>> > Prince in the former and Beauty in the
latter?<BR><BR>> Now you're getting it! Yes, Valeria is a princess in a
tower. Typhon is <BR>> a king sleeping under a mountain. But these don't
quite work, do they? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>No more than Dorcas quite works.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>> Hmm. Hmm. Maybe they aren't supposed to, quite. But given how
little we <BR>> know of Valeria, it's a sound pattern if not a solid data
point. <BR>> Whatever could it mean?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For me, three Sleeping Beauties, none of which quite work, means the
Sleeping Beauty detector is oversensitive and yielding false positives.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>> If you have serious thoughts about Wolfe and Disney, lay them
out <BR>> here---don't save them for your therapist.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When I think of Sleeping Beauty, I think of the fairy tale, probably
versions I read in childhood. I’m not even sure I’ve seen the film (I do
remember Snow White).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>- Gerry Quinn</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>