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On 11/30/2011 12:38 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
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<pre wrap="">From: David Stockhoff <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net"><dstockhoff@verizon.net></a>
Sorry, what's the Levi quotation?
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This sentence from the occultist Eliphas Levi, which I'd quoted earlier.
"Some alchemists, impressed by this idea, speculated on the culture of
the mandragore, and experimented in the artificial reproduction of a
soil sufficiently fruitful and a sun sufficiently active to humanise the said root, and thus create men without the concurrence of the female."</pre>
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thanks!<br>
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"A sun sufficiently active to humanize...." What a suggestive line.<br>
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<pre wrap="">Why don't they point to Ymar? The two Biblical references to mandrakes are in connection with Rachel and
the maiden in the Song of Songs, both types of the Virgin Mary in Catholic theology (or I can find at least one
source that says that about each one). I don't think I need to make the last connection.
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<pre wrap="">Actually, please do.
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The last connection is that Ymar is an anagram of Mary.</pre>
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d'oh!<br>
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<pre wrap="">I don't follow this or know the references at
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<pre wrap=""> all. Why Ymar? (I did just find the Rachel ones but don;t know how
to interpret them.)
Just disagreeing with Lee's comment that the word "mandragora" could only point to Typhon. I don't think any of these word games /necessarily/ point to one thing. You can always find connections to others. Of course, you and Lee and others may have reasons for preferring one connection.
I meant to add that "mandragora" can suggest "dragoman". Agia and the jungle guide might both count as dragomans. Maybe some people will like a possible connection between the mandragora and Father Inire.</pre>
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I'm pretty "catholic" in my tastes when it comes to connections. <br>
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<pre wrap="">Or why not the Sleeper? Shakespeare refers to mandragora as a soporific, including in a fairly famous passage from /Othello/.
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<pre wrap="">Meaning "the sleepers" on the Whorl? Or another sleeper?
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I was thinking of the god worshiped on Ushas under that name, but any one you want.</pre>
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Ah. Perhaps. <br>
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The quote:<br>
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Not
poppy, nor mandragora,<br>
Nor all the drowsy syrups of the world,<br>
Shall ever medicine thee to that sweet sleep<br>
Which thou owedst yesterday.<br>
<span class="bodysi">Othello, 3. 3</span></font><br>
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<pre wrap="">Or Severian in his first life or two? The most famous quotation about a mandrake starts "Go and catch a falling star", which immediately brings to mind the slingers' song, which Wolfe said illuminates--darkly--Severian's past and future.
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<pre wrap="">This quotation?:
“Go, and catch a falling star, / Get with child a mandrake root, / Tell me, where all past years are, / Or who cleft the Devil's foot.”
John Donne quotes(English poet, 1572-1631)
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Great lines, and of course Severian finds out where past years are. Other connections can easily be made. But I can't say whether Wolfe had it mind or not.
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Not necessarily. Maybe we're meant to leave it as a mystery and concentrate on the interaction between Severian and the homunculus.
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<pre wrap="">I agree. But the Donne quote, if it is a key link, does lead to the image of impregnating a mandrake root, which takes us back to who and why, and what resulted from it.
Oddly enough, it doesn't take me to those questions at all.</pre>
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Does it at least take you back to Levi?<br>
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