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On 11/29/2011 1:23 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
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<pre wrap="">From: Lee Berman <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:severiansola@hotmail.com"><severiansola@hotmail.com></a>
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<pre wrap="">If a random someone has grown a fetus from a plant root for no apparent reason, I
can't see that as a more interesting interpretation than one which explains
who created that fetus and for what purpose.
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Okay. I can't see yours as an interesting interpretation. That's a matter of taste.
However, I am saying that because of the Levi quotation, or just because a fabulous mandrake root is something human-like but not really human, I don't think it's valid to say that the only possible reason for Wolfe to use the word was as a connection to Typhon. Indeed, I think it's quite possible that such a connection never entered his mind.</pre>
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Sorry, what's the Levi quotation?<br>
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It's quite possible, except that the whole cloning/in
vivo/possession/scanning trope was plainly already in Wolfe's mind,
and as such maybe the LS/SS arcs as well. Typhon is a major
connection between Severian in the Citadel and the embryonic Silk in
the Whorl. So it stands to reason that Typhon created it as a failed
experiment on the way to devising his colonization strategies, but
it's not a critical plot point.<br>
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<pre wrap="">As larry says, mandrake and Mandragora
both point to Typhon (as homunculus ties to Dr. Talos, but we won't complicate
the matter with that, for now).
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Why don't they point to Ymar? The two Biblical references to mandrakes are in connection with Rachel and the maiden in the Song of Songs, both types of the Virgin Mary in Catholic theology (or I can find at least one source that says that about each one). I don't think I need to make the last connection.</pre>
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Actually, please do. I don't follow this or know the references at
all. Why Ymar? (I did just find the Rachel ones but don;t know how
to interpret them.)<br>
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<pre wrap="">Or why not the Sleeper? Shakespeare refers to mandragora as a soporific, including in a fairly famous passage from /Othello/.</pre>
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Meaning "the sleepers" on the Whorl? Or another sleeper?<br>
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Or Severian in his first life or two? The most famous quotation about a mandrake starts "Go and catch a falling star", which immediately brings to mind the slingers' song, which Wolfe said illuminates--darkly--Severian's past and future.</pre>
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This quotation?:<br>
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<font class="sqq">“<a class="sqq"
href="http://69.59.157.161/quotation/go-and_catch_a_falling_star--get_with_child_a/261610.html">Go,
and catch a falling star, / Get with child a <b>mandrake</b>
root, / Tell me, where all past years are, / Or who cleft the
Devil's foot.</a>”</font>
<p style="padding-top: 3px;"><img
src="cid:part1.03020307.04000402@verizon.net" title="Author
Popularity 8/10" alt="" align="middle" height="9" width="11"> <a
class="sqa" href="http://69.59.157.161/quotes/john_donne/">John
Donne quotes</a><font class="sqb"> (<a
href="http://69.59.157.161/nationality/english_authors/"
class="sqb">English</a> poet, <a class="sqb"
href="http://69.59.157.161/birthday/january_24/">1572</a>-<a
class="sqb" href="http://69.59.157.161/birthday/march_31/">1631</a>)</font></p>
That is indeed striking.<br>
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<pre wrap="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://books.google.com/books?id=N-IemS8Uqn0C&pg=PA233">http://books.google.com/books?id=N-IemS8Uqn0C&pg=PA233</a>
(You might prefer to associate the falling star with Lucifer and thus with Satan, who Typhon echoes.)
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<pre wrap="">larry miller: The question is who that someone is.
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Not necessarily. Maybe we're meant to leave it as a mystery and concentrate on the interaction between Severian and the homunculus.</pre>
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I agree. But the Donne quote, if it is a key link, does lead to the
image of impregnating a mandrake root, which takes us back to who
and why, and what resulted from it.<br>
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