<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=severiansola@hotmail.com
href="mailto:severiansola@hotmail.com">Lee Berman</A> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">
<DIV>> Gerry Quinn: </DIV>
<DIV>> > There is certainly one analogical element, as in the autarchial
process, <BR>> >the memory donor voluntarily offers himself as a
sacrifice, which is not the case in <BR>> >the “diabolical Eucharist” of
Vodalus and his followers.<BR><BR>> The process with the old Autarch does,
superficially, seem more benign than the Vodalus<BR>> banquet and the
voluntary aspect is probably part of it. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>More than that. One can argue that it symbolises a real Eucharist, as
distinct from the diabolical one of the Vodalarii.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> But in my view, the old Autarch<BR>> is a somewhat ineffectual
figurehead in front of the true power of of his vizier and he<BR>> is a
sacrificial lamb for the hiero-types. He seems like a very sad and
unfulfilled<BR>> human being. The alzabo-like potion did him no favors (nor
Severian, really). Without it<BR>> he (Apian?) would have remained a honey
steward and probably ended up like the rather <BR>> happier character of
Odilo.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One could make a similar argument regarding the life of Jesus Christ.
Doing one’s duty for the people of Urth is not necessarily pleasant or
comfortable, nor does it make one a dupe.<BR> <BR>> >That also seems
in accord with the other works of Wolfe, who does not, I think, consider
<BR>> >any form of technology intrinsically evil, but only the uses of
it.<BR><BR>> Given a purely literary reading of the text this might be so.
But I am not only interested <BR>> in the text but also the mental processes
in the individual who created the text. I suppose<BR>> Biology is an
inherently "ickier" science than physics but I am just saying I detect
an<BR>> extra "ewww" factor in Wolfe's thinking about biology which goes back
to 5HoC. (just had a <BR>> thoughtflash of Jonas being disgusted with his
meat parts; Sidero also. Perhaps WOlfe does<BR>> sympathize with them a
bit).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think you’re projecting. Sure Wolfe’s robots are sometimes a bit
disgusted by flesh, or feel themselves superior, like the narrator of
Eyebem. In All the Hues of Hell, by contrast, the robot feels like
an equal, and hopes to have a relationship with a human woman. In Long
Sun, the chems are superior in some ways and inferior in others. In Fifth
Head, Mr. Million is not a perfect copy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>> >> Yes, but I think the question is whether these aliens are
entirely a product<BR>> >> of evolution on other planets or whether
they are humans who left Urth in<BR>> >> earlier waves, mutated,
evolved and are now returned.<BR> <BR>> >You suggested earlier that
Wolfe indicated this somewhere in _Urth_. Have you a link to
this?<BR> <BR>> I find it inherent in the story. We are first introduced
to cacogens as weird, ugly aliens. Later <BR>> the text reveals that some of
them (hierodules) are of human origin. Why not all of them?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Uh... the tentacles and stuff?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There’s also the point that in Wolfe, Earth itself is more often than not
the native home of non-human intelligent races.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>> >in many of his stories (certainly including the Urth cycle) he
indicates that robots and androids <BR>> >as pretty much equivalent to
people. A robot Jesus is not part of the Solar Cycle, obviously, but the
<BR>> >concept would sit better with it than with most SF
novels.<BR> <BR>> Perhaps. But it still doesn't happen. I think Long Sun
would have been the perfect place for Wolfe to<BR>> create a non-human
savior. Could have been a chem or a god in the mainframe. But nope. Once
again,<BR>> a human gets the role. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Is Silk a saviour? He seems more of a Moses. In Short Sun he
may be more, but in this case he actually HAS melded with one of the digital
gods of Mainframe.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>La Befana might be a better example, in that the titular character seems to
expect Jesus to be born again as a human on a planet where humans live along
with an alien species. But then again, she could be wrong. She is
alarmed by Zozz – could that be a subtle hint that the child she seeks will
actually be born to one of Zozz’s people?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- Gerry Quinn</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>