<div>The modern usage of materialist as ontological naturalist/physicalist is an unfortunate hangover of a terminology shift. Two hundred years ago people that believed only in physical things would be called materialists because we did not have any idea about atomic science. Now we call them physicalists because "matter" seems so inadequate, however they mean the same thing (unless one talks to Jaegwon Kim, who is really a dualist but too scared to admit it).</div>
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<div>I wouldn't even call Milton's position materialism, as it sounds much more like Spinoza's version of modal monism, or even something like Leibniz' monadology.</div>
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<div>We could, of course, be approaching this from the wrong side, starting with matter, when we should be starting with spirit. A pure and eternal unchanging essence (eidolon, spirit, universal soul) is a common top-of-the-ontological-pyramid feature of a lot of the mythic/philosophical systems Wolfe pirated for BOTNS, as well as a defining feature of the ontologies of the early church fathers.</div>
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<div>That pure Spirit substance is then filtered or refracted or corrupted as it leaves the Ain Soph Dei or whatever and gets down the lowly earth-world of imperfect, temporary and flawed beings such as us, where it is now instantiated not as eternal and unchanging spirit but now base matter.</div>
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<div>The sense of redemption or of reconciliation of matter with spirit is then a heroic process that runs counter to the natural inclinations of things.</div>
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<div>LH<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Craig Brewer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cnbrewer@yahoo.com">cnbrewer@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">Just a note that there are quite a variety of "materialisms" out there. Perhaps<br>one that would be interesting to think of in relation to Wolfe would be Milton.<br>
<br>Milton was a materialist. But he was also, obviously, not an atheist. For<br>Milton, matter and spirit were on the same continuum, and spirit was just<br>"refined" matter. Technically, Milton gets categorized as a "monist" meaning<br>
there's only one substance, rather than a dualist who says that mind/soul and<br>body are two different "things."<br><br>In his theological writings, Milton says this right out, but you can also get a<br>much more beautiful version in Paradise Lost (5. 469-490) when Rafael explains<br>
it to Adam. I'll quote it below, but I'd point out that this kind of<br>"materialism" might be interesting to think about, particularly in relation to<br>the notion that, with Wolfe, mimicking something can help you become that thing.<br>
Perhaps, like Milton, Wolfe is saying something along the lines of: "lowly<br>matter gets refined into a more spiritual state when it behaves like something<br>more pure/moral/spiritual/whatever."<br><br>Rafael to Adam:<br>
<br><br>O Adam, one Almighty is, from whom<br>All things proceed, and up to him return,<br>If not deprav’d from good, created all<br>Such to perfection, one first matter all,<br>Indu’d with various forms, various degrees<br>
Of substance, and in things that live, of life;<br>But more refin’d, more spirituous, and pure,<br>As nearer to him plac’t or nearer tending<br>Each in thir several active Spheres assign’d,<br>Till body up to spirit work, in bounds<br>
Proportion’d to each kind. So from the root<br>Springs lighter the green stalk, from thence the leaves<br>More aery, last the bright consummate flow’r<br>Spirits odorous breathes: flow’rs and thir fruit<br>Man’s nourishment, by gradual scale sublim’d<br>
To vital spirits aspire, to animal,<br>To intellectual, give both life and sense,<br>Fancy and understanding, whence the Soul<br>Reason receives, and reason is her being,<br>Discursive, or Intuitive; discourse<br>Is oftest yours, the latter most is ours,<br>
Differing but in degree, of kind the same.<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Urth Mailing List<br>To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a><br>Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net/" target="_blank">http://www.urth.net</a></blockquote>
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