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    "I <span class="ft">never understood any kind of border patrol when
      it comes to music.”</span> <br>
    ~ Bob Dylan<br>
    <br>
    On 2/7/2011 11:42 AM, Son of Witz wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:F0249EC5-DED5-4AF3-A003-622539BBA052@butcherbaker.org"
      type="cite">
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="">I'm definitely with
          Lane on this.</span></div>
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="">It's the same with
          musical sub-genres. Just play good music, I don't care how you
          need to categorize it for the marketplace.</span></div>
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="">These preceived
          categories indicate nothing about the intrinsic quality of the
          work.</span></div>
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="">I'm reading a James
          Ellroy "Crime Novel" right now.  Bah!  The thing scorches!</span></div>
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=""><br>
        </span></div>
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="">~witz</span></div>
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=""><br>
        </span></div>
      <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="">On Feb 6, 2011, at
          6:44 PM, Lane Haygood <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:lhaygood@gmail.com">lhaygood@gmail.com</a>>
          wrote:</span><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>SF to me has no significant differences from "literary"
          fiction.  Sure, there are stylistic conventions and structural
          differences, but those are there in the difference between a
          frame story and first-person narrative, for example.  Each
          "genre," so to speak, may contain different story structures,
          literary techniques, etc.  And plenty of genre fiction is
          uninteresting schlock... but so is your average perusal of the
          literary fiction section.  Good writers are good writers are
          good writers, no matter what they write.
          <div>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div>And I'm reminded of the Wolfe quote that what we call
            "sf" is what was once called "literature."  For instance, if
            Homer were to write "The Odyssey" today, it would be called
            epic quest fantasy.  The same for the Kalevala or the Eddas,
            which were Tolkien's primary influences.  </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>And yeah, it is unjust that sf, for entirely political
            reasons, gets short shrift from prize committees and critics
            and other image conscious types.  On the other hand, their
            approval of what I read was never requested, nor is it
            important to me, although I will continue to tell anyone who
            will listen that there are truly wonderful writers working
            in sf (Wolfe, Le Guin, Bakker, Lynch, etc.).</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>LH<br>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 7:04 PM,
              Marc Aramini <span dir="ltr"><<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:marcaramini@yahoo.com">marcaramini@yahoo.com</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
                0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
                padding-left: 1ex;">
                <br>
                <br>
                --- On Sun, 2/6/11, Lane Haygood <<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:lhaygood@gmail.com">lhaygood@gmail.com</a>>
                wrote:<br>
                <br>
                > From: Lane Haygood <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:lhaygood@gmail.com">lhaygood@gmail.com</a>><br>
                > Subject: Re: (urth) grumble at wolfe comment made
                attached to guardian article<br>
                > To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<a
                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br>
                > Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 4:38 PM<br>
                <div class="im">> Literary fiction is entitled to its<br>
                  > pretensions. That is, after all, what
                  distinguishes one made<br>
                  > up story from another sufficient to call it
                  "literary."<br>
                  ><br>
                  ><br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                I guess.  But then you know there are these grants and
                stuff, like Vollman getting 50,000 tax free for five
                years, for, as you said, creating a made up story.  Just
                reeks of ... injustice?  I don't know.  But those
                pretentions are so ... repetitive and boring?  The best
                SF is sometimes pretentious in novel and interesting
                ways.<br>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5"><br>
                    <br>
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              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br>
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      </blockquote>
      <blockquote type="cite">
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