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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I don't read Severian's comment that the Ascians
all looked similar as indicating that they were a race not seen in the
Commonwealth - I think he means the empty eyes again. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The "Ascian" moniker may possibly include a pun on
Asia, which could refer either to the conformity typically observed under
totalitarian communist regimes, or the relatively higher value placed on
conformity as opposed to individualism in many Asian cultures compared to those
of the West. I don't think it is likely to go any further than that,
though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I would be hesitant to draw a link between the
cultures of Severian's Urth and historical cultures, including the cultures
which 'abandoned their wildness' , which is probably a legend and
symbolic rather than 'historical', and which also strikes me as applying to Urth
in general rather than certain races of Urth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Kim Lee Soong is a Korean name, but 'Fortunate
Cloud' is not the name an Ascian captain would choose, and Jonas does
not appear to be acculturated (or programmed!) to live within such a
culture. Also note that there are two Koreas, and Wolfe fought with
one against the other.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>- Gerry Quinn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org
href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Son of Witz</A> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469)"
class=Apple-style-span>On Jan 20, 2011, at 4:41 PM, "Gerry Quinn" <<A
href="mailto:gerryq@indigo.ie">gerryq@indigo.ie</A>>
wrote:</SPAN><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN lang=EN-IE><B>From:</B> <A title=Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org
href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Son of Witz</A> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>So, if my theory is right, that the culture of Kim
Lee Soong was asian, and this culture is the humanity that spread into the
universe with war, and that this culture still survives in Ascia, it makes
perfect sense to think that "asian" is a much more likely source
"soulless.".</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Here's the thing: the only thing Severian notices
about him [Seventeen] are his haircut and his empty eyes. That doesn't
sound like Ascians are racially very different from the folks in the
Commonwealth.</FONT></SPAN><BR></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>"<SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>I think I must have cut down half a dozen Ascians
before I saw that they all looked the same—not that they all had the same face
(as the men in some units of our own army do, who are indeed closer than
brothers), but that the differences among them seemed accidental and
trivial."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>-seems, to me, to suggest that Severian is encountering
an unfamiliar race, as he seems to be having a very common quasi-xenohobic
feeling, upon first encounter, that "they all look alike"</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>I'm happy to be wrong here, but I'm not convinced by
the counter arguments.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=6 face=iBooks_Baskerville><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>There IS a distinct lack of strangely tilted or
elongated eyes. This makes a connection to Agia really weak
indeed.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=6 face=iBooks_Baskerville><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=6 face=iBooks_Baskerville><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>Re: north, I'm talking about an asian dominated North
America, not the Asian continent. Even if those North American Ascian's
lose the distinctive eyes, they can still be descendants of asians, according
to your argument. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=6 face=iBooks_Baskerville><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=6 face=iBooks_Baskerville><SPAN
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class=Apple-style-span>To me it seems obvious to connect the Kim Lee Soong era
with the humanity that traded it's wild side. This absolutely ties in
with what we know about Ascian philosophy. It seems an obvious
connection. Does anyone deny Kim Lee Soong is an asian name? Why
would Wolfe, who does A LOT of intentional linking of phonetically similar
names, use the word Ascian for what are essentially a communist metaphor?
This is a man who was in firefights with asians. Surely he saw
that this association would be made. Maybe he had to get it out of his system
but later felt a bit squeamish later when possibly accused of
insensitivity.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>