<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Dec 29, 2010, at 6:06 PM, James Wynn <<a href="mailto:crushtv@gmail.com">crushtv@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
Well, I'm not inclined to squint at the stories to see if they are
theologically correct, but I did take a stab at this here:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/2010-December/019620.html"><a href="http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/2010-December/019620.html">http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/2010-December/019620.html</a></a><br>
<br>
In short, I would say, in the construct I've offered above, that St
Catherine is a myth. Naming people after saints is equivalent to
naming your child Thor or Freya. You could no more go back in Time
and meet Jesus than you could go back in Time and meet Cinderella.
The same with Jesus.<br>
u+16b9 <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><div>We're asking, "How does the essence of the myth come through?" It is NOT just the name, it is the same story.</div><div><br></div><div>If there is a metaphysical TRUTH in a myth, perhaps this truth is an archetypal base for the instantiated story. At a one level, we have a deluge and the legends it inspired. On another, we have the idea of a healing aspect of God that enters physical time and flesh that instantiates In different avatars. </div><div><br></div><div>So, as you, Wynn, lay out, there might be all these clear echoes of christ in a christ-less creation because he existed in another creation. That's fair enough to suggest. What I, and I think Jordon feel is that this above mentioned healing aspect of God a force is TRUER than the myths it inspired. Thus any creation or emmanation of God's would have the potential to manifest a saviour that carried similar messages.</div></span><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>
On 12/29/2010 7:09 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:AANLkTikiKzjb0d4jrtR3qXHEByMkGv7uEOnBQ=Boiw=x@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">So, not to pick a scab, but Witz and I were chowing
down burgers today, and talking about our favorite subject, BotNS.
We both are more amenable to the idea of Severan being a 'Christ
like' figure or 'instantation of the Logos' than many on this
board, to be sure, so we're apt to look at the books through that
lens.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>With that in mind, for those who feel that these books
indicate a world that never knew Jesus, how do we get the myth
of Saint Catherine that is so important to the Order of the
Seekers of Truth and Penitence? Sure, the name may have simply
been a translation choice by the fictional Gene Wolfe, but the
ritual of elevation clearly lays out the actual story of Saint
Catherine, at least in some guise. How do you have a Saint
Catherine if there is no Christianity? What mental gymnastics
do we need to put ourselves through to posit a world where such
an event could be orally transmitted (or otherwise) down through
the ages to end up as the rites of the Guild of Torturers
without that event having some basis in far far far distant
truth?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Certainly our world today is considered 'fallen' by some, and
many Christians. Yet our world decidedly DID know Jesus. So
why is it impossible to think that the influence of Jesus on
Urth would be so far gone and diluted as to be only extant in
the most second hand of myth and hearsay? It seems possible to
me, and in fact partially supported textually. Of course, it
could be an earlier instantiation of Briah, in which the life of
Christ and Earth was slightly different, leading to the Urth we
see in New Sun, but it can't have been so different that Jesus
didn't spawn a movement which engendered saints the likes of
Saint Catherine, said saint's stories surviving the aeon's to
end up as the elevation rights of the guild of torturers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps this has already been answered in the pages of this
list. Anyone care to take a crack at that?</div>
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