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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Marc, I think some of your ideas about the Short
Sun are very interesting, esp. Horn as Babbie. I'm less convinced about
Neighbours possessing Horn, either your version of it or James's. But I
need to re-read the Short Sun trilogy before I make too many comments on those
matters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>However I can't really accept the theory that
Urth and Lune are Green and Blue. Unlike you I see lots of compelling
evidence, or perhaps it would be more correct to say that I do not buy your
theory that the humans (and animals) of Urth suddenly all mutated into a
different species! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Also, here is Silk/Horn stating explicitly that
Urth orbits a distant star:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>********************************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial><SPAN lang=EN-IE>
<P>"Soon it will be evening," he said. "If we still haven't gone, we'll go up
onto the roof of this house. Standing on the tiles I will point and you will
peer until at last you see a certain dim red star. It's a long, long way from
here. Think of it now, the sky like black velvet strewn with diamonds in the
bottom of a grave, and among the diamonds a minute drop of blood.</P>
<P>"There is a whorl circling that star, an ancient whorl. On that whorl,
Juganu, there is an old city you have seen, and through it a river. Its waters
are turbid and foul, and seem scarcely to move. You know that river; you have
sailed on it. There are women in that river, women who swim up from the sea. I
do not speak of the feignings of the sea goddess, but of real women. Some are as
tall as towers, some no larger than children. Their hair is green and streams
behind them when they swim, their nipples black, and their eyes and lips and
nails as red as blood.</P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>*********************************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>(Interesting too that he distinguishes the brides
of Abaia from the "feignings of the sea goddess" - and just WHICH sea goddess
does he mean? But that's another matter.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>As for Fomalhaut, there is one question mark over
it, which is its distance from Urth - only 25 light years. That does
have the advantage that the Whorl could have travelled at a non-relativistic
speed to get there, which at least solves the question of why Typhon, if he
commanded such energies, did not himself create a new sun for Urth and
Lune. However, that's an excessively technical quibble anyway, as
Wolfe is not a hard SF writer. But Fomalhaut's distance raises
another technical problem which I think is more serious in the literary
context - there appears to have been a significant amout of relativistic time
dilation on board the Whorl; perhaps 2000 years have passed on Urth while
300 passed on board the Whorl and Blue/Green. However,
a 200-year journey to Fomalhaut would have caused a time discrepancy of
only a few months.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Of course, Fomalhaut could have moved since our
time, but then it would no longer be in the Fishes Mouth!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Still, there are minor issues (as is the fact that
Fomalhaut is too young for advanced life to have evolved on its planets) - it
may be that Wolfe did not worry about them. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Overall, I don't see any particular reason to
believe that the ancient intelligence contacted by the Cumaean lived on Green or
Blue, but no particular reason to rule it out either.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>- Gerry Quinn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=marcaramini@yahoo.com href="mailto:marcaramini@yahoo.com">Marc
Aramini</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=urth@lists.urth.net
href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">The Urth Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 22, 2010 3:06
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: (urth) Fish and Caves</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV><BR>Now, Lee, this mention of Formalhaut, the Fish's
Mouth, the first compelling evidence I have seen that in
fact Green/Blue is not just Urth/Lune substitute from Yesod, with
the last lines of the Short Sun being Good fishing, good fishing, good
fishing, etc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am under the impression that there is some other mechanism of
astral/temporal transport at work that allows Silk et al to go back in
time with Rigoglio instead of just across space, that on Green the city
they walk through is the ancient remains of Nessus, that they are in a
future setting and the bird like man on the cliff with the stiff awkward
gate might be the immortal remnant of Sev, etc but what my theory is
missing is a compelling reason why they would go to that time period, I
can't seem to realy find one except that Silk is obssessing about
the dust of the past or something. (We've seen Silk in weird time
paradox situations twice - once in the old lady's story at the beginning
of IGJ, and in Long Sun where such a huge deal is made about whether
Silk is wearing a blue or black tunic in some scenes - important to keep
track of that more carefully on my next read through.)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BUT the fishes mouth, well, you know, let's see where that
goes. And yes, I agree that the story of Fish and Frog must
be very important, too, though I used it once to argue that Pia was
Sev's sister (her description of dark hair with pale features,
high cheekbones and a thin waist really mirrors Sevs, and he
finds a girl who looks like Pia eviscerated in Baldander's castle)
and that one of them was sent down the river, but someone convinced me
the river was headed the wrong way or something.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 12/22/10, Lee Berman
<I><severiansola@hotmail.com></I></B> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV class=plainMail><BR>Considering the fish that ate Mamelta and
perhaps the fish in Father Inire's The Cumaean says she is
contacting a being on a planet circling the star, Fomalhaut,<BR>"The
Fish's Mouth", </DIV>
<DIV class=plainMail>......</DIV>
<DIV class=plainMail>I think Fomalhaut is a very good candidate for
the star around which Blue and Green
orbit.<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
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