<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">On Dec 15, 2010, at 10:01 AM, "Gerry Quinn" <<a href="mailto:gerryq@indigo.ie">gerryq@indigo.ie</a>> wrote:</span><br></div><div><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
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<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org" href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Son of Witz</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </div>
<div>Did anyone even notice my recent verticality metaphor? (Foes of the
Increate) I don't think anyone has laid that out before, yet it is right there
under your nose and doesn't require assembling elusive fragments of perceived
clues, and frankly seems to be a huge symbolic reality that the plot is
stretched tautly over. It surprises me that these things remain hidden
while we elaborate on whether or not the House Absolute is a crashed ship. It
is an interesting exercise but it doesn't really get us any closer to the
essence of the work. (which isn't to say good stuff can't come of such
thinking. I'm still reeling over the idea that Latro is a
werewolf.</div></blockquote></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">It's interesting - but to what extent can it be
explained by the juxtaposition of "Severian travels through a mountainous
region" and "Severian meets enemies"? </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Erebus and company, and the Ascians if indeed
they count as foes of the Increate, can be explained away by saying that
only defeated enemies count. (And Vodalus too, I suppose, although he is
defeated in the next book.) And it seems not unreasonable that Typhon
should be on top. The alzabo, however, seems to me to fall in
the category of an animal; it is used by foe Vodalus but also by the
Autarchy.</font></div>
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<div><font size="2" face="Arial">So I'm not convinced overall that this is an
overarching scheme that the plot is stretched to cover.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">- Gerry Quinn</font></div>
<div> </div></div></blockquote><br><div>Fair enough. Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't explain them away. All enemies "count," but yes, defeated foes seem to count more.</div><div>I ammend the original explanation to suggest that Erebus and Abia are lowest, in direct oppositon. I know that makes for a wonky hierarchy, but it seems to fit a sort of "magical thinking." It sort of works that they fit like this in that Severian never engages them directly, and Juturna helps more than hinders him.</div><div><br></div><div>I did account for the Ascians, though I don't know exactly where they fit in the vertical map. I imagine that "North, in the mountains" is higher than the commonwealth. I suppose I'd rank them near the zoanthropes. Both surrender their God-given humanity. The Zoanthropes sin might be greater, because it is self imposed, whereas the Ascian populace seems to have it forced upon them by their leaders.</div><div><br></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><font size="2" face="Arial">It's interesting - but to what extent can it be explained by the juxtaposition of "Severian travels through a mountainous region" and "Severian meets enemies"? </font></div></div></blockquote><br></span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">Well, we could say this about all such plot symbols.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">We could as easily say that "the plot sends Severian climbing to meet and surpass the various foes of God."</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">I mean, when he enters the forgotten tunnels of the fourth level and the library stacks, are we not supposed to understand that he is being metaphorically, and literally guided through the labyrinth of Urth's past where, in both cases, he finds something of seeming permanence or endurance? (meaning the Atrium of Time and The Wonders of Urth and Sky) I'm sorry, but it is clearly MORE true than, "Severian gets lost and instead of finding his dog finds his future wife" and "Severian goes on an errand to fetch books and is waylaid by a rambling old man babbling about somemusty BS."</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">~Witz</span></div></body></html>