<div>No, you're definitely onto something which is not bud here. <br></div><div><br></div><div>The vertical meeting the horizontal is also a way of looking at the Incarnation. God, who exists outside of Time and even of Space, enters human history at a specific point as a human being. The horizontal (time-based humanity) meets the vertical (God, who is OUTSIDE--eh?). And of course, the symbol you refer to is the instrument of death. </div>
<div><br></div><div>All through the Fourth Gospel Jesus refers to his impending "glorification". The Apostles think he's talking about being crowned King of a reunited Judah & Israel, but he's referring to another kind of elevation entirely--his raising-up upon the wood of the Cross.</div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Son of Witz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><br>I can't answer this as a Christian, though, as usual I see a very frakking clear symbol right under our noses that I've never heard anyone else explain, though it probably has been put forward.</div>
<div><br></div><div>This goes back to the idea I'm always harping on that the Vertical represents the Eternal and the Horizontal representing The Temporal World.</div><div><br></div><div>With that in mind, what is the central image of Christianity? A man crucified on a cross that is (seemingly historically innacurately structured) an intersection of the vertical and horizontal.</div>
<div>So then, we have a man nailed to the intersection of the Eternal and the Temporal, such as any Good Man is. </div><div><br></div><div>I take it that we are all the sons and daughters of God, and that we must each choose how we orient ourselves, or at least bear this burden of seemigly cross purposes. Shall we navigate the world without considering the Eternal? Should we turn our backs to the temporal and only align ourselves with the eternal? No, we each need to bear our cross. Each of us has this struggle, unless we are so insensitive as to not care about the vertical domain.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If it is true that a crucifix was more of an X than a T, this even seems to support my idea, because the symbol must have been changed to send a message, otherwise, why not use the X shaped crucifix?</div>
<div><br></div><div>But you know, the only people who have ever told me I'm right about this are some far out, super-deep Greek Orthodox Christian Theology buffs. Everyone else thinks I'm smoking too much pot.</div>
<div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>~witz</div></font><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>On Dec 15, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Craig Brewer <<a href="mailto:cnbrewer@yahoo.com" target="_blank">cnbrewer@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Just curious, then: if the Logos was eternal, why did it have to enter history in the form of an actual living man?<br>
<br>(Not arguing...honestly curious. And sorry to get away from Wolfe. Theological discussions on this list sometimes seem to get contentious.)<br></div><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<br><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Matthew Weber <<a href="mailto:palaeologos@gmail.com" target="_blank">palaeologos@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> The Urth Mailing List <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" target="_blank">urth@lists.urth.net</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wed, December 15, 2010 6:18:46 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: (urth) christ, already<br></font><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Jerry Friedman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jerry_friedman@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jerry_friedman@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div> </div>
<div>Is it correct in Catholic theology to say that the Second Person or Logos has existed eternally but didn't become Jesus Christ till he incarnated?</div>
<div> </div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>That is precisely the case. <br clear="all"></div><br>-- <br>Matt +<br><br>The seaman's story is of tempest, the plowman's of his team of bulls; the soldier tells his wounds, the shepherd his tale of sheep.<br>
Sextus Propertius (54 B.C.-A.D. 2), Elegies, II, i, 43<br><br>
</div></div>
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Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net" target="_blank">http://www.urth.net</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Matt +<br><br>The seaman's story is of tempest, the plowman's of his team of bulls; the soldier tells his wounds, the shepherd his tale of sheep.<br>
Sextus Propertius (54 B.C.-A.D. 2), Elegies, II, i, 43<br><br>