<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>Interesting, Dan'l. I was going to ask which Person the Outsider was.</DIV>
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<DIV>Is it correct in Catholic theology to say that the Second Person or Logos has existed eternally but didn't become Jesus Christ till he incarnated?</DIV>
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<DIV>If so, and taking Wolfe's word that Briah is a previous cycle, I think one could say that the Logos existed in (or in relation to) Briah, but Christ didn't. What that means for grace and salvation I don't know; I think it's been suggested that Jesus's incarnation had a retroactive effect and thus saved, for example, Abraham.</DIV>
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<DIV>I assume that the Conciliator and the man who scourged the merchants are retroactive "echoes" of Jesus the way the scene at Baldanders's castle echoes /Frankenstein/. I don't know whether these echoes happen by some kind of "automatic" process, like morphic resonance, or by divine intervention. If the Outsider did possess the merchant-beater, that must have been a deliberate decision on His part.</DIV>
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<DIV>(By the way, somebody, David Stockhoff I think, suggested that the man wouldn't have been "fortunate" if he'd been crucified later, but Silk is the one who calls hims fortunate. I think Silk might have thought being enlightened or possessed outweighed being crucified, or even that martyrdom was also good fortune.)</DIV>
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<DIV>David asked about the point of similar repeated universes. One possibility that's been mentioned here is that the author might want to have a Flood without having God violate his promise to Noah.</DIV>
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<DIV>Jerry Friedman<BR></DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo@gmail.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> The Urth Mailing List <urth@lists.urth.net><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed, December 15, 2010 3:33:19 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: (urth) christ, already<BR></FONT><BR>I believe that the Outsider is the first Person of the Trinity, God<BR>the Father, and thus distinct from Christ.<BR><BR>On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Son of Witz <<A href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org" ymailto="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org</A>> wrote:<BR>> Yes, but the Trinity is a unity, and thus makes my statement true, no? We<BR>> can equally say that the Outsider = Christ = God. Am I wrong?<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Matthew Weber <<A href="mailto:palaeologos@gmail.com"
ymailto="mailto:palaeologos@gmail.com">palaeologos@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR>><BR>> Christ is used exclusively in Christianity to refer to the second Person of<BR>> the Trinity. Nobody refers to the Father or the Holy Ghost as Christ.<BR>><BR>> Here's a handy photographic mnemonic :<BR>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/aozuas/2404074070/<BR>><BR>> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Son of Witz <<A href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org" ymailto="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org</A>><BR>> wrote:<BR>>><BR>>> Are you forgetting the tripartite nature of Christ?<BR>>> The Father, The son, and The Holy Ghost. Christ is an aspect of God and<BR>>> is used by Christians interchangeably with God.<BR>>> On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:20 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF <<A href="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net"
ymailto="mailto:dstockhoff@verizon.net">dstockhoff@verizon.net</A>><BR>>> wrote:<BR>>><BR>>> I'd say Outsider=God was about as unambiguous as Gene Wolfe gets.<BR>>><BR>>> --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Son of Witz <<A href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org" ymailto="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org</A>> wrote:<BR>>><BR>>> From: Son of Witz <<A href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org" ymailto="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org</A>><BR>>> Subject: Re: (urth) christ, already<BR>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <<A href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net" ymailto="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</A>><BR>>> Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 4:12 PM<BR>>> I don't know about Dionysus. I need to read those again, but I thought<BR>>> that Outsider=Christ was about as unambiguous as Gene Wolfe
gets.<BR></DIV></DIV></div><br>
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