<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>I think all that is very apt, Brewer.</div><div>And as I wrestle with each sentance of this book, I ultimately find the stories rewarding.</div><div>Just last friday night, I came home from work to an empty house, my family out of town becaude they had the day off when I didn't. Suddenly Halvard's story, which I previously had no use for, became very relevant. What a monster I would be without my family to keep me on the path. </div><div>As Ava says:</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Baskerville; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); font-size: 18px; line-height: 19px; ">"Like the man your friend talked about, most men think they make their homes for their families, but the fact is that they make both homes and families for themselves.”</span><br><br>~witz</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Nov 30, 2010, at 10:02 AM, Craig Brewer <<a href="mailto:cnbrewer@yahoo.com">cnbrewer@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>It seems like there are different ways to take it.</span><br><span></span><br><span>When I first read it, I thought, "And here's Wolfe deciding to be 'literary.' </span><br><span>Let's stop the 'quest-adventure' and do some thematic ruminating!"</span><br><span></span><br><span>After I got more interested in the world of Urth, it seemed like perfectly </span><br><span>appropriate "world building" stuff. It was almost generically appropriate.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Then, even later, when I was interested in the cultural/religious aspects of </span><br><span>Urth, it seemed like a series of interesting philosophical digressions.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Looking back now, it was probably Wolfe doing some of all of that. It seems </span><br><span>perfectly appropriate that the original STORY could have done without it. And my </span><br><span>bet is that when Wolfe was originally writing the thing, he was thinking </span><br><span>primarily as a professional genre writer would: I have my story, and now I have </span><br><span>to add to it because my editor/publisher wants more. I don't want to screw up </span><br><span>the plot I've laid out, so how can I add to this appropriately in a way that </span><br><span>won't require all kinds of plot-level restructuring?</span><br><span></span><br><span>So it probably was padding, in terms of word count. But a good writer will still </span><br><span>make padding add to the overall work, which I think this does. It certainly </span><br><span>interrupts the "forward movement" of the story (and maybe we can fault it for </span><br><span>that...Wolfe even seems to, and I can understand how the "storyteller" in him </span><br><span>might be a bit irritated with those passages), but it still contributes to Urth. </span><br><span>I wouldn't want to do without it, myself, just as I wouldn't want to do without </span><br><span>any of the other Brown Book stories (and still want more!).</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>----- Original Message ----</span><br><span>From: Son of Witz <<a href="mailto:Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org">Sonofwitz@butcherbaker.org</a>></span><br><span>To: The Urth Mailing List <<a href="mailto:urth@lists.urth.net">urth@lists.urth.net</a>></span><br><span>Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 11:31:54 AM</span><br><span>Subject: Re: (urth) Padding?</span><br><span></span><br><span>Wait, Isn't the storytelling contest in the fourth book, in the Lazaret?</span><br><span>I feel that stuff is obliquely relevant, but mostly padding. I can barely stand </span><br><span>that contest in the Lazaret.</span><br><span></span><br><span>~Mike</span><br><span></span><br><span>On Nov 30, 2010, at 3:16 AM, Mo Holkar <<a href="mailto:lists@ukg.co.uk">lists@ukg.co.uk</a>> wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hi all,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>One of Wolfe's comments in the Cooney interview, linked here recently, caught </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>my eye. Re BotNS:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>"If you look in the third book, you will find a storytelling contest that’s </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>strictly padding. That contest got me a really good review in Playboy Magazine – </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>and I’ve always been grateful to it for that reason."</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I have always seen the storytelling contest as narratively and thematically </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>important. We step back from the main action, and get a succession of insights </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>into the metaphysics of the characters' world. We then read on with somewhat </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>renewed eyes.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I guess we can continue to believe that Wolfe is being a little disingenuous </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>when he says it's "strictly" padding. But it is slightly sobering to reflect </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>that if BotNS had remained a trilogy, it wouldn't have been included.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Although perhaps you may feel that this is post hoc reasoning, and really it is </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>indeed padding that we could have done happily without?</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>best wishes,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mo</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span># ~ # ~ #</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>WolfeWiki -- a wiki about Gene Wolfe</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/">http://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/</a> </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Urth Mailing List</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net"><a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a></a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net"><a href="http://www.urth.net">http://www.urth.net</a></a></span><br></blockquote><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Urth Mailing List</span><br><span>To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net"><a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a></a></span><br><span>Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net"><a href="http://www.urth.net">http://www.urth.net</a></a></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Urth Mailing List</span><br><span>To post, write <a href="mailto:urth@urth.net"><a href="mailto:urth@urth.net">urth@urth.net</a></a></span><br><span>Subscription/information: <a href="http://www.urth.net"><a href="http://www.urth.net">http://www.urth.net</a></a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>